Gun-Grabber Regime Preparedness List

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If Obama wins the White house at the end of this year, I think we can be fairly certain of renewed attempts at passing anti-gun laws: A new AWB, banning online gun and bulk ammo sales, or probably strengthening the GOV's ability to ban specific individuals from owning guns.

Now if you really want to get an AR or are short on ammo, then I would suggest saving up to buy it before the end of 2008; however, a survivalist shopping list isn't really the type of list we should be making.

I have my own list.... It's a list of lines in the sand and how I will respond. Depending on how far the new administration will go my responses will range like this:
1. Complain quietly and vote for the other guy.
2. Complain loudly and campaign for the other guy.
3. Shout loudly and protest in the streets.
4. Shut up and start loading magazines.

Each of these responses depend on how extreme the government is willing to get. Right now I'm at step 1, as the candidates are finalized I'll probably move up to step 2. I'm not going to post what would cause me to move to steps 3 or 4, but this is a personal list that all gun-owners should have.

We, as citizens (not NRA/GOA members), have to be aware of what's happening, how to oppose it, and how to overturn our losses. IMO it was this lack of forethought on the part of individual gun-owners that allowed things like the 94 AWB.
 
Why all the fancy EBRs? Why not just tons of SKSs and high-points, which cost just about as much as lowers... If there's another AWB, people won't be picky about their assault weapons, and your profit (if you sell) margin will be much higher. You could just mail-order about 20 SKSs and ammo with that
$5k. Not to mention it looks less evil and might not even be outlawed, so you could legally sell at the inflated price. Oh! Imagine how many 'Armor piercing' mosin-nagants you could get!....
 
Parker will tell us A LOT, If things go the way you guys are talking (a bit alarmist) and IF Parker goes bad (Real Bad) I'll go to a country that allows them (even if it takes 4 million permits for $5000 I can get them)
 
I wrote the list because I have lived through it. I know now what I would've done differently in 1999 (my state's last year of relative freedom), and so I'm trying to share a little bit.

As I noted in my OP, we should FIRST do everything we can to prevent such a climate change from occuring. On this board and others, we (and by we I mean my family, my associates, and my fellow CG members) have raised thousands of dollars to fight spurious firearms violation charges (and won); we have gone table to table, bench to bench at ranges passing out flyers and asking people to vote or sign petitions; we have offered free shooting events for first time shooters. And, as an educator myself, I am outspoken in adamantly challenging student's preconceptions of firearms as well as the dogma perpetuated by the state.

On Thursday, a young female teacher in my department spoke to me about how she was excited by the responses she got from her students when she showed them PETA videos of the meat industry. I listened to her unit plan, and then asked her if she had an conflicting viewpoint component. She replied that she felt the video already did a good job of demonstrating such counterarguments. We had a half hour conversation after that, resulting in my coming in the next day and helping her develop a adverserial component within her classroom, one which would argue in favor of hunting as a alternative to mass farming of animals.

So, we do try our best to provoke change.

But the possibility still stands that we may not carry the day, and that the AWB will be resurrected. Mit Romney, whom many find acceptable, is running on a Republican ticket - and is the same governor who espoused well over a decade of essentially anti-gun rhetoric. But I digress - this thread is not meant to debate political possibilities. There are enough threads doing that already. So allow me to address some of the comments replied.

1. What if they do away with the grandfather clause? - Well, that will be an outright ban, then - in the same way California banned Shuriken (ninja stars) as assault weapons. No registration period was offered, IIRC. Simple possession is now a felony. In the past of course, many peoples responded to government seizures by simply burying their possessions - when the British began the process of disarming the colonists, for instance, arms and ammunition were cached and hidden away. It was impossible for the British to ransack every shack and barn in the entire Territory, and I imagine that any attempt to physically seize perceived AWs will be met with even more logistical difficulties. While we do have a duty to obey any laws presented to us, the sheer enormity of such a task would make an outright ban extremely unlikely. To this day, I often see shooters with unregistered AWs at ranges - and many do not even know that they are de facto felons.


* What if I don't have $5000?
- Then tailor your collection to your abilities, but be aware that even if the monetary value of pre-legislation firearms does not increase, the actual effective value of such items may be essentially priceless. A registered Assault Weapon - say, for instance, a Bushmaster XM15 or EAI STG58 FAL - cannot be sold in the state of CA. And, outside of CA, its value is only $200-300 higher than what it sold for ten years ago. However, it is unlikely that an owner of a registered AW in CA will agree to sell you his gun, even if you offered him three times what he paid for it. There is a word for such material - Unobtainium. Buy what you can afford. First receivers, then parts kits, then magazines, and so on. You grandchildren may one day thank you for your decision to buy a set of receivers that back in the day cost "only" $100 each. Indeed, some on this board might remember what NFA guns cost before 1986, and 1964. Today each is a down payment on a house.

* Dealers love it when guns are about to be banned.- Sure they do. But the markup on new guns isn't much - not nearly as much as a new member of the shooting sports is worth. Just as Dstorm urged everyone to buy surplus ammunition last year, I urge everyone to buy a receiver or two, a set of magazines, perhaps a parts kit. Do you remember Yugoslavian 8mm? It was dirt cheap - selling for about $64 a case of 900. Today that case is worth about $250. Tell me, what part of your portfolio went up nearly 500% in two years?

* Why buy EBRs or MBRs? Why not just stock up on $50 Mosin-Nagants and $75 Hi-Points?
- Because EBRs and MBRs are superior defensive firearms. I have an 03 FFL and my bank knows it. But the truth is, low-grade and obsolete weaponry is not a true substitute for high-grade weapons. My M59 is quite accurate, and I have no doubt that I could defend myself with it ably if I had to. But it is undoubtedly inferior to my FAL rifles, or even my $150 SAIGAs. If I were given the opportunity to choose, I would not choose my SKS over my other firearms. Its lack of a detachable magazine, it's inability to mount optics well, and its weight makes it less desirable. Further, EBRs and MBRs are much likelier to be targeted as "dangerous weapons" and "public nuisances".
Ironically, however, the Hi-Point C9 is also likely to be banned - as a "junk gun" or "saturday night special". Remember that term? Get ready to see it bandied about again.

One more thing. If it's cheap guns you want, then I have better suggestions than M59/66 SKS rifles or Hi-Point handguns.
* CZ 82/83
* M59 SKS (not the GL model)
* FEG PA63
* SIG P6
* Walther P1
* CZ 52 (and ammo is still cheap for these guns)
* Finn M39
* M38 Mosin-Nagant
* SAIGA x39 or 5.56
* Romanian AK
 
As has been pointed out the first best and most productive course of action is to work hard and work diligently to remind those we send to the legislature to honor the BOR. Work hard and diligently to replace those who have displayed their contempt for freedom and our rights. We must do our utmost to turn back the tide of the socialists who would suck the life out of our freeedom and our country.

If we fail to do this our only two alternatives would be abject submission, the acceptance that we failed to honor our birthright as we hand over our guns
and our rights concurrently at the whim of power mad politicians......or to
risk it all the way Jefferson et. al. risked their lives and holdings. Neither alternative is particularly appetizing.

If we fail to show those who think power over the populace is their birthright that we will fight them at the ballotbox we surely cannot make them believe we would be willing to fight them with the cartridge box. However if we tell them, and show them that we are willing to fight, both politically and physically for our rights we can make a difference. Otherwise the motto of the day may as well be "bread and circuses".
 
All of it could become worthless at the stroke of a pen.
I think we all know this, and that the implicit assumption in the recommendation to buy the equipment on that list is that eventually the buyer will use it when the fecal matter hits the rotating air circulation device. But I have been wrong before...
 
5. Ammunition. AP, Incendiary. Steel Core. 5.7FN AP (for a rifle, of course). Green Tip Penetrators.

Most AP is already a secondary market item. Ditto for Incendiary. Ditto for 'steel core'--it's already banned or de-facto banned. "Green Tip" is of nominal importance. 5.7 is a round of specialized interest here.

Sad point here--this part of the show is already over in many ways. If anything, lets remind everyone of that.

Otherwise--buy what you can--and COMPLETE weapons and not just receivers; 'kits' and 'parts' can be banned with the stroke of a pen, too.

Just my take. Lets win and not worry!
 
Just as buying receivers is a low-cost way of hedging your bets (as opposed to paying for an entire assembled gun), you can easily buy AP bullets that can be easily loaded into AP ammunition. Indeed, IIRC (and IANAL) in many states that prohibit AP / INCEN ammo you can legally own the bullets (not the cartridge, just the bullet).

The big lesson learned from CA law has been this phrase: "It is in a legal configuration".
 
Ha!

When all else fails we can always raise the rebel flag and have the Stars and Bars waive again :evil:

There would be more than just a few I suspect that would fall in .
 
these idjits value their jobs, no way, i repeat, no way will there not be grandfathering involved. this is the only way to get the fudds to go along with things.

I for one do not see a lot of gun grabbing going on. Last time around to many of them lost their jobs.
 
I for one do not see a lot of gun grabbing going on. Last time around to many of them lost their jobs.

I'd like to believe so. But then again, four senators who voted for the 1994 AWB are running for the Presidency today.
 
Silverlance--I hear you--I get your point-I largly agree; mine is that you can't bank on the availability of 'uppers' to build up those receivers if they are further regulated.
There are some solid deals on whole weapons right now--why not give them at least a portion of your gun 'portfolio'?

As for AP and most special purpose ammo (in component or 'loaded' form)--the sources for it are becomming few and far between except for the secondary market; if I am mis-informed please advise by post or pm.

Thanks

-Mike
 
The CMP sells some of the best steel core for 30.06 at great prices

The current (Greek and some LC) CMP offerings are NOT steel core: the jackets are part ferrous metal and attract a magnet. They have sold AP ammo/steel core in the past. And, M2 AP is by ATF ruling a non-AP cartridge anyway. That said--it is great ammo and VERY hard hitting.

Yeh, that's the stuff; the gold-standard by which shoulder fired AP is measured is *by regulation* not lawfully AP even in my great home state of Illinois where AP is illegal. ss109 is also exempt (though it is not AP in fact in any case).
 
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I still have a feeling there will be no assault weapon ban put in place be the feds. The last time they did that we got eight years of Republicans running the senate. Of course in that time they implemented plenty of antigun laws themselves. It is the people who pretend to be progun than stab us in the back like another Ronald Reagan that I am more weary about. There is just no real support apart from a few nutjobs from both parties who want to get a ban put into place.

I have had it up to here with so called life time hunters and progun right people who then get embarrassed when they have to have an assistant take off the safety of the gun they have owned for twenty years. It reminds me of John Kerry style hunting, to appease conservative people into voting them and then stabs us right in the back.
 
By all means if you have the money buy the entire rifle. The problem is, uppers are very expensive. Lowers are relatively cheap.

Since I didn't feel like coming up with 900 for a rifle, I built them myself. The last one I built was Sabre Defence ($100) receiver, DPMS parts kit ($50); the upper was a used one from Olympic ($300). My only gripe is that the barrel is "postban" so no threads or bayonet lug. But it does have a free floating handguard. =)

AKs can be built for about $150; Purchased for about $300.
 
Guys, let me say it plainer. I'll try to use short words.

You can buy expensive AP bullets and save 'em -or- you can buy a whole lot of cheaper bullets, and shoot enough to where you're reasonably confident of hitting a 4" x 6" target a 2-300 yards.
 
"I have had it up to here with so called life time hunters and progun right people who then get embarrassed when they have to have an assistant take off the safety of the gun they have owned for twenty years. It reminds me of John Kerry style hunting, to appease conservative people into voting them and then stabs us right in the back."


I hear you Limeyfellow. Mr. Romney "just" became a Life Member of the NRA in 2006. That's rather odd, don't you think. The "governor" of one of the most rabid anti-gun states in the country joining the NRA, as a Life Member? Oh, I'm sorry, that's right. 2006 was just about the time his political machine started to gear up for the 2008 Presidential race. Hmmm, coincidence? I don't think so! Rarely do poli's do ANYTHING coincidentally as election time nears.
I can't remember the source of this info, so please don't ask, or crucify me for my inability to validate sources. I am not a professional journalist who espouses every opinion as a fact for the masses to digest. I'm just sick and miserably tired of ALL these jack..s politicians, Repubs and Dems alike. But, there's a special place in hell for the imposters. These are the worst of the worst, in my opinion :cuss:. But I digress.
This Thread is about personal views, personal choices, and personal actions. Do what you can, do what you can afford, do what you think is best. But for God's sake, do SOMETHING!!!!!! Whatever form that may take for YOU :banghead:.
 
Wait now, I actually have a serious question here.

If I buy a AR lower before the ban, I can still obtain uppers after the ban is signed, right?

It just can't have all that fancy assaulty stuff on it, right?

Like no sharp pointy things hanging off the end of it, right?



Right...???
 
Actually even better. The theory is that if you buy the receivers now, you will be able to add all the fancy assault stuff later as finances allow, even under a resurrected AW Ban.
 
Fella's;

Of course, the kicker is, when AWBII hits it's highly unlikely that the language is going to mimic that of AWB first edition. I've forgotten who said, and I'm probably paraphrasing, 'The problem with our military is that they're always preparing for the last war'.

So, what's to do when you're a pencil-necked geek writing legislation for Mr. Liberal & you want to get noticed? Why, close all those nasty loop holes that existed in AWB #1, when you give him your proposal for AWBII.

In other words, expect AR platform uppers to have to have S/N's & be subject to some sort of "complete gun" language. Perhaps, by law, the S/N of the upper & lower will have to match, or you are a felon. Think about that. If you've got a currently legal lower, but an unserial numbered upper on it, you get a go-to-jail card. And they'll have effectively banned all those nasty, icky, vile, uppers that they missed the first time around.

Lets be preparing for this round, not the last one.

900F
 
One interesting take I have not seen mentioned:

How many states have been added to the rolls as allowing CCWs since the last election? A BUNCH! Most of these states have had dropping crime rates as well. And I believe a bit of a wake-up call. The result:

Our politicians aren't dumb, and even in a worst case election result, I believe they will be very careful on the gun control issue. This could go out the window depending on the SCOTUS ruling on the DC case.

Buy/stockpile ammo, you say? I buy as much as I can afford right now because the wife and I are D.I.N.K.(dual income, no kids) status at present. When that changes, we'll lose her income, and I'll be buying diapers, not ammo.

As for stashing a bunch of recievers, parts kits, etc.: Sure a few here or there, fine. But use some judgement:

1. Too many/too much selling without an FFL will already get you noticed under CURRENT law, and you could face serious time behind bars. At the very least your lawyer WILL NOT be cheap.

2. 1 gun with 10 parts kits and 100 magazines? You'd be much better off with say 3 guns with 2 parts kits, and a couple dozen mags each.
 
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There seems to be a lot of 'what ifs' being thrown around on AWB2. And while I personally believe at least an attempt will be made, let's not get too carried away on what it will or won't say/mean until someone writes it.

Having said that, a little common sense and preparation for ANY type of disaster, be it man made, legal, nautural or whatever IS in order. Look no further than Katrina folks. For the unfortunate folks who endured NOLA, my condolences. Do you still live there? Nagin was re-elected as I recall, so my sympathy is limited. He's the one that sent out the collection teams. For those who did not, how many protected their family and property from roving thugs? There were an aweful lot of marauding alligators, rattlesnakes, and water moccasins shot during the cleanup. What would you do if cleaning your home from a devastating storm, only to have these nasty critters fall from the ceiling damned near in your lap? And you can bet THEY weren't happy either ;). I suppose one might grab their registered assault shovel or hoe, but it wouldn't be my first choice :evil:!!! AWB2 is only one aspect we should fear, there are some very serious social situations that deserve consideration also.

One thought of adding/improving your 'collection' now is this: spare parts are a must, but how about buying an additional firearm identical to the one you already have as a 'parts gun', per se. It functions as a back up if you're in a pinch, and you have a complete set of functioning spare parts when needed if you're not. There's a lot to be said for duplication of effort, and even more so if you have limited funds (who deosn't anymore?). Just my .02. Buy it now, there IS NO tomorrow, and then it's too late anyway.
 
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