9mm load development

Things That Go Bang said:

See the inset photo of reloading data for charge weights for CFE Pistol but how do I decide which charge weight to use? I get that each increases velocity, but which do I choose?

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Pick any load you want, but the usual advice is to start with lower loads and work your way up.

Things That Go Bang said:

Should I care about standard deviation for what’s a short distance target practice load?

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No. SD is not correlated with accuracy:
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/

Things That Go Bang said:

Should I chronograph each charge weight, and also assess the grouping?

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You can do that if you want to. That's up to you.

Things That Go Bang said:

Given the loaded round will be shot from many handguns, I’m just so confused relative to precision rifle load development done to that specific barrel.

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You want to make sure it will fit in and cycle all your guns. Advice on the plunk test (to check fit) can be found here:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

As mentioned work up look for function and accuracy.The lab radar part is up to you.But I don’t think it can hurt.

Some simi autos will not function on min loads. So if you start that load only load a couple. I normally start of few 1/10 off the min and work up. Once I fine one the is promising I load up a larger batch to confirm. You can run velocity data if you like, it up to you. Only needed to know if you have enough velocity of the HP to open up or playing action games.

For 9mm I start at the bottom and go up in 0.2 grain increments. I stop below max though. I test for group size at 10 yards off a rest. A good load in my Blackhawk will make one ragged hole but so far I haven’t found a 9mm load to do that.

Whatever shoots best is what I start loading as long as it cycles. I’ve had a couple that shot great but wouldn’t run my pistols. The smallest group for a given test is probably just luck in most cases but that’s what I do.

For some stuff I load minimum and half way and see if they both cycle. Then I load the weakest that works. For some I’ll do the full load range and shoot groups at 25 yards rested.

Also I was somewhat disappointed with CFE-P at first but I should have been disappointed in my shooting. That was the real problem.

I tried 2 other powders with 147 grain XTP and it slightly outshot them both from my Shield. My M&P9 shoots basically everything the same.

Is there that much variation in 9mm chambers? I haven’t had any issue from 115 grain Berrys up to 147 grain XTP and Berrys all seated to the tested length in the load data.

DMW1116 said:

Is there that much variation in 9mm chambers? I haven’t had any issue from 115 grain Berrys up to 147 grain XTP and Berrys all seated to the tested length in the load data.

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Huge issue with chamber variation on my bench. I have 3 match grade barrels, and all 3 are COL sensitive. Honor Defense Honor Guard (now posing as a Savage), Springfield EMP, and S&W Shield Plus Performance Center. I have 2 spare barrels that I keep next to my reloading bench - Beretta 92FS and Honor Defense Honor Guard. Naturally, bullet profile makes all the difference. I have to field strip one of my Kimber Micro 9s to pull a barrel for general loading. If it fits my KM9 it'll fit in everything else I shoot...naturally, anything that fits my match grade barrels will also fit every other pistol...but they tend to be pretty stout loads. Thus, I load general purpose ammo, and I load match grade ammo. Not that the ammo is match grade, but that it is reserved for those pistols.
I'm 60% finished with an "AR9" build, and that will likely introduce an entirely new wrinkle to both loading and shooting.

If you start at the min of cfep you are wasting primers and bullets. I'd go recommended and if matching all data and confident in weight I'd go recommended.

• You'll NEVER have the exact same mix of components as the load manual. There will ALWAYS be small differences in bore diameter, bullet fit, primer brand, powder lot, etc, etc. Beginning at Starting Load allows all these subtle changes to be worked out.

• What load you end up with is based on what type of shooting you'll be doing. Paper targets require a lot less energy than wild dogs. Recording "best accuracy" is always a good policy.

• Generally with auto pistols, you'll want your cases landing 4 to 6 ft away.

• Nothing good happens at Max Load.

rfwobbly said:

Nothing good happens at Max Load.

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I would not agree with this. Max load can sometimes produce the best accuracy and best bullet terminal performance.

Just don't sweat it!

rfwobbly said:

• Nothing good happens at Max Load

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Hum best accuracy, good velocity, load recommended by manufacturer. I guess I don't see your point.

The Hornady data I have, is tested in a actual firearm instead of a test barrel.
I try to get other data and compare, you can find a 9mm Luger load with CFE and a 124gr Hornady bullet here, https://hodgdonreloading.com/

Welcome to THR.

Things That Go Bang said:

I’m new to pistol reloading, but experienced with precision rifle reloading

how do I decide which charge weight to use? I get that each increases velocity, but which do I choose?
I am experienced with precision rifle reloading, finding nodes, etc., and I have Labradar. Should I care about standard deviation for what’s a short distance target practice load? Should I chronograph each charge weight, and also assess the grouping? Given the loaded round will be shot from many handguns

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For me, how I decide on what powder charge to use is driven by accuracy (Holes on target speak volumes) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/col-question-9mm.909923/#post-12398715

1. Determine Max OAL/COL using the barrel
2. Determine longest Working OAL that will reliably feed/chamber from the magazine
3. Reference all available load data to identify start/max charges for powder work up in .2-.3 gr increments
4. If Working OAL is significantly shorter than published, reduce start/max charges by .2-.3 gr
5. Identify lowest powder charge that will reliably cycle the slide and produce accuracy (This could be target load)
6. If start charge reliably cycles the slide and produce accuracy, consider powder "work down" to identify lighter target load
7. Monitor accuracy trend to identify most accurate load confirmed by subsequent range trips
8. If "most accurate" load is not at max charge, consider incrementally reducing OAL (Say by .005") to see if accuracy improves. If yes, use shorter OAL. If no, use longer OAL

Since you are loading for multiple pistols, use the shortest OAL and powder charge that will work in all the pistols.

While you can chrono the loads, it is not necessary as smaller groups on target should dictate which powder charge to use.

I also check neck tension by measuring bullet setback after dummy round is chambered from the magazine. While I prefer no bullet setback, if significant bullet setback is experienced, I consider using thicker walled brass or slightly larger sized bullet - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

I have found slower burning powders than Universal/Unique tend to produce optimal accuracy at high to near max load data while faster burning than W231/HP-38 powders are better suited to produce lighter charge target loads.

Along with the plunk test, sometimes I just assemble a dummy way too long, then keep shortening the OAL until it "looks right", then measure and see where it's at. Subjective voodoo, but that's how I do it.

For powder charge, because data can sometimes be all over the place... I like to find all the data I can, throw out the high and low ends, and average the rest to figure what range I'm going to test.

I used to have a chrono, but a friend of mine shot it, and I haven't replaced it. It was nice, but.... it's kinda like a tachometer... interesting, but not really needed.

Ironicaintit said:

tachometer... interesting, but not really needed.

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Tachometer is very interesting if you are operating at or near redline. When wife was redlining all the gear shifts of "her" Corvette Z06, I told her the redline was not the shift indicator rather warning to shift "before" the redline.

Similarly, chronograph is interesting if you are working at or near max load data to verify you are not exceeding published max velocities.

@LiveLife
Well maybe newer drivers, or those who don't have the gear head gene could benefit from a tach...

one place where a chrono can really shine in load development.... there gets to be a point where when you're testing ever increasing charge weights, you see the FPS curve plateau... meaning more powder isnt gaining you any more velocity. That is the redline. Push past that, and something is going to give.
and that is indeed invaluable information.

Me, I shift by spidey sense. (Shrugs)

I did retest my loads, as well as all of my dads loads, and pretty much all of them were on point (except one 308 + 180gr + 4198 load of my dads that I recalled)