Bond Arms

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
The problem I have with Bond Arms is I can't get the gun I really want without buying the one I don't want, then buying the barrel I want.

None of their offerings come with either the .45 Colt or the .44 Special barrels, which can be had separately. I don't want the .45 Colt/.410 because it will have minimal rifling to accommodate the shot shells whereas the .45 Colt only barrel should have more rifling. And the .44 Special would be preferred as that ammo is cheaper than the .45 Cold, though I can't imagine shooting enough out of one of these that ammo price would really matter, so I am sticking with .45 Colt.

Now the point of a Derringer is concealability so the shortest barrel is probably the best. In that regard and to have much rifling, a shorter cartridge is preferred, so maybe I solved my on problem as I think they do have an off-the-shelf with the .45 ACP. However, if you don't get a revolver caliber, you won't get the automatic ejector feature on the Bond Arms Derringer, so how important is the auto eject feature?

Not important on the derringer. Mine works fine with 9mm

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Autodidactic said:
Not important on the derringer. Mine works fine with 9mm

For some reason I want to go all out and get it in a .45. Yep, maybe I will order a .45 ACP Roughneck at my LGS. That is a bit more kick than .45 Colt though so I wonder if that is too much.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
For some reason I want to go all out and get it in a .45. Yep, maybe I will order a .45 ACP Roughneck at my LGS. That is a bit more kick than .45 Colt though so I wonder if that is too much.

The only thing I’ll say, 9mm is snappy in the roughneck. That’s why I’m hesitant to get larger

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Autodidactic said:
The only thing I’ll say, 9mm is snappy in the roughneck. That’s why I’m hesitant to get larger

Well I don't want it to be like the Seacamp .32 ACP which was so nasty to shoot that I got rid of the horrid thing.

Maybe I should go .38 Special, but since the chamber is for .357 Magnum there will be leading issues and a bit less rifling.

Of course .380 ACP gives the most rifling, and is a little less kick than 9mm. But I sure like those nasty big bores on the .45!

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
Well I don't want it to be like the Seacamp .32 ACP which was so nasty to shoot that I got rid of the horrid thing.

Maybe I should go .38 Special, but since the chamber is for .357 Magnum there will be leading issues and a bit less rifling.

Of course .380 ACP gives the most rifling, and is a little less kick than 9mm. But I sure like those nasty big bores on the .45!

I have the .357/.38 3 inch barrel. It’s long enough to work well in .38. Too much kick in .357. The 9mm is manageable in 2.5 inch. It also does fine. .380 is more mellow but heavy with full steel bond arms.

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Autodidactic said:
I have the .357/.38 3 inch barrel. It’s long enough to work well in .38. Too much kick in .357. The 9mm is manageable in 2.5 inch. It also does fine. .380 is more mellow but heavy with full steel bond arms.

With 9mm or .380 you can get the skinnier gun, but I like the Roughneck. How would you rate the .357 vs the .45 ACP for kick? I would not be buying extra barrels so would have to take the 2.5 inch in the .38/.357.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
With 9mm or .380 you can get the skinnier gun, but I like the Roughneck. How would you rate the .357 vs the .45 ACP for kick? I would not be buying extra barrels so would have to take the 2.5 inch in the .38/.357.

If you want 2.5 inch, get .380, 9mm or .45 acp. The revolver cartridges have the issue of being too long and not enough velocity and rifling in 2.5 inch. 9 mm tests out of the 9mm roughneck show solid velocity still. Also, while I haven’t shot the .45 acp BA, I suspect .357 is worse. It was atrocious felt recoil in my 3 inch BA. I solely shoot .38 out of that barrel now.

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
None of their offerings come with either the .45 Colt

My Mini came that way. 2.5" .45 Colt barrel.

aaaaa said:
so how important is the auto eject feature?

The auto caliber barrels have a relief cut on one side so the rim of a cartridge can hook the rims of both fired cases at once and pluck them out. I find this to be as fast or faster than the extractor (it's not an ejector). With the extractor you need to grasp the cases and pull them out. If they are a bit sticky the extractor may not raise them enough so you have to then manipulate the thumb piece of the extractor to help it along.
I'm not in any way knocking the extractor; I'm just saying I don't feel the absence of one on the auto calibers is a handicap.

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

Autodidactic said:
Also, while I haven’t shot the .45 acp BA, I suspect .357 is worse.

Your suspicion is correct.

I just recently got the new all steel Stinger in 9mm. I haven't had it to range yet. I'm not afraid to, mind you, it's just that I haven't had the time being semi-retired, and the range is a long way off. Nearly 7 miles from home and 4 miles from work, and besides, if I shoot it it won't be new anymore; and, uh, um....................
The boss asked me why I don't just fire a few into the test barrel. I'm still working on an answer for that one.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
Your suspicion is correct.

I just recently got the new all steel Stinger in 9mm. I haven't had it to range yet. I'm not afraid to, mind you, it's just that I haven't had the time being semi-retired, and the range is a long way off. Nearly 7 miles from home and 4 miles from work, and besides, if I shoot it it won't be new anymore; and, uh, um....................
The boss asked me why I don't just fire a few into the test barrel. I'm still working on an answer for that one.

Wait, there’s an all steel stinger now?! Not aluminum frame?

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

Yep. Available in .380 and 9mm. Stinger RS. https://www.bondarms.com/Stinger-RS-P8550.aspx

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
Yep. Available in .380 and 9mm. Stinger RS. https://www.bondarms.com/Stinger-RS-P8550.aspx

Oh man, I missed that! How does it compare to the aluminum one? Heavier obviously, but also easier to shoot/less recoil

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

I haven't shot it yet and even so I wouldn't be able to make a valid comparison as my aluminum frame stinger is .380.
You gave me an idea though. When I do get it to the range I'll take my Defender or a Roughneck with a 3" 9mm Defender barrel. I can certainly make a direct comparison there.

EDIT: I just read your above post and I see you have a Roughneck 9mm so I should probably take mine instead of a 3" to compare the Stinger to.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
I haven't shot it yet and even so I wouldn't be able to make a valid comparison as my aluminum frame stinger is .380.
You gave me an idea though. When I do get it to the range I'll take my Defender or a Roughneck with a 3" 9mm Defender barrel. I can certainly make a direct comparison there.

Please do as I have a 2.5 inch 9mm roughneck. How long is the Stinger barrel?

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
My Mini came that way. 2.5" .45 Colt barrel.

True, I could get the MINI but hat is $534! I can get the .45 ACP Roughneck for $277 and two extra shorter barrels for the same price. I read an article said the low priced Bond Derringers are not as refined in the finish but just as high quality structurally. So I am going on the cheap. I maybe will get the .45 ACP Roughneck. If the .45 proves to vicious in the hand, I can always order a smaller caliber barrel. The Roudy is $299 and it is tempting because it is .45 Colt/.410 shot shell, but you get very little rifling, so would want at least 3.5 inch barrel ($180).

Old_Grouch said:
The auto caliber barrels have a relief cut on one side so the rim of a cartridge can hook the rims of both fired cases at once and pluck them out. I find this to be as fast or faster than the extractor (it's not an ejector). With the extractor you need to grasp the cases and pull them out. If they are a bit sticky the extractor may not raise them enough so you have to then manipulate the thumb piece of the extractor to help it along.
I'm not in any way knocking the extractor; I'm just saying I don't feel the absence of one on the auto calibers is a handicap./QUOTE]
Actually sounds like the extractor could at times be a hindrance. More to lean me into the budget priced .45 ACP Roughneck.

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
Your suspicion is correct.

I just recently got the new all steel Stinger in 9mm. I haven't had it to range yet. I'm not afraid to, mind you, it's just that I haven't had the time being semi-retired, and the range is a long way off. Nearly 7 miles from home and 4 miles from work, and besides, if I shoot it it won't be new anymore; and, uh, um....................
The boss asked me why I don't just fire a few into the test barrel. I'm still working on an answer for that one.

Pressures for .357 Magnum and 9mm are not all that far apart, but the .357 sure has more recoil than 9mm in my experience.

Is it legal to shoot into the test barrel? Is this a gun shop?

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
Is it legal to shoot into the test barrel? Is this a gun shop?

Yes, to both questions.

aaaaa said:
I read an article said the low priced Bond Derringers are not as refined in the finish but just as high quality structurally.

That has been my experience. Two of my Bonds are Roughnecks.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
Pressures for .357 Magnum and 9mm are not all that far apart, but the .357 sure has more recoil than 9mm in my experience.

Is it legal to shoot into the test barrel? Is this a gun shop?

Doubt me not, the .357 out of a 3 inch BA barrel is far more recoil than my 9mm 2.5 inch barrel. No comparison, and the former has more mass with longer barrel. It was like a firecracker in my hand.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

aaaaa said:
True, I could get the MINI but hat is $534! I can get the .45 ACP Roughneck for $277 and two extra shorter barrels for the same price. I read an article said the low priced Bond Derringers are not as refined in the finish but just as high quality structurally. So I am going on the cheap. I maybe will get the .45 ACP Roughneck. If the .45 proves to vicious in the hand, I can always order a smaller caliber barrel. The Roudy is $299 and it is tempting because it is .45 Colt/.410 shot shell, but you get very little rifling, so would want at least 3.5 inch barrel ($180).

Honestly, if you want the big bore IN a 2.5 inch, I think the .45 ACP is the way to go for all the reasons you and we mentioned. Not enough rifling or length for velocity with low pressure .45 Colt, etc.

Also, FYI, here are some tests on the 9mm in the Roughneck 2.5.

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

Over 1,000 fps for the Hornady is fairly impressive for a 2.5" barrel.

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

Impressive groups at 7 yds form a Derringer.

Anyway, I think we have resolved my problem. All in all for a big caliber, the Roughneck .45 ACP looks like THE way to go for me. The price is very right too. Think I will order at my LGS tomorrow.

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
Over 1,000 fps for the Hornady is fairly impressive for a 2.5" barrel.

Agreed, that's why I think that the 9mm in the short barrel BA's might be the best if someone is using them for SD. Best mix of sufficient power yet still manageable. What do I enjoy shooting more? Popping some lower powered .38's out of the 3 inch barrels

Review: Bond Arms Roughneck | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanrifleman.org)

Old_Grouch · Sep 11, 2022

Autodidactic said:
What do I enjoy shooting more? Popping some lower powered .38's out of the 3 inch barrels

I really, really, REALLY want them to make a .38 Spl Stinger barrel. (the stinger is 3" BTW)
If they offer one as a barrel only, I'll buy one. If they only offer it as a complete gun, either aluminum or SS, I'll buy one.
Anyone sensing a pattern here?

Autodidactic · Sep 11, 2022

Old_Grouch said:
I really, really, REALLY want them to make a .38 Spl Stinger barrel. (the stinger is 3" BTW)
If they offer one as a barrel only, I'll buy one. If they only offer it as a complete gun, either aluminum or SS, I'll buy one.
Anyone sensing a pattern here?

You are legendary as far as collecting BA’s.

I’d like smaller ones in .32 acp or .22.

Here’s my .38 with Altamont grips.

I think a .38 158 grain semi wadcutter out of one these is nothing to sneeze at. With no cylinder gap, arguably 3 inches of BA barrel is at least equal in power development to a 1 7/8th inch snubbie (which also has a .38 special cartridge length cylinder), if not slightly more powerful.

aaaaa · Sep 11, 2022

^ I can see I will want/need new grips when I get my Roughneck.

Old_Grouch said:
I really, really, REALLY want them to make a .38 Spl Stinger barrel. (the stinger is 3" BTW)
If they offer one as a barrel only, I'll buy one. If they only offer it as a complete gun, either aluminum or SS, I'll buy one.
Anyone sensing a pattern here?

You mean a barrel dedicated to .38 Special with no provision for .357 Magnum so it has more rifling? That is a good idea. The narrower Stinger frame would easily handle the .38 Special.

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