Articles from NRA Shooting Sports, Single stage or progressive

Rule3 said:

From the US Army MU.

This is one of the articles, scroll to the bottom for the others,
For beginners they recommend a single stage. Which I agree with. This topic has been debated here and other forums. So each to their own.

"Progressives are an animal unto themselves, and while they offer many benefits, they do take some getting used to—even by experienced handloaders!

it illustrates why we at the AMU handloading shop agree in recommending that new handloaders should begin with a single-stage press. Once one thoroughly learns the steps in each phase of handloading by repeated experience, then one will be qualified to move on to a progressive press.

Quite beyond that, the single-stage press will remain virtually indispensable for one’s entire handloading career, even after having purchased a progressive press (or two). There are endless small projects that are best handled on a single-stage press. A poll of the AMU’s handloading staff reveals that not one would willingly be without a single-stage press, despite owning at least one progressive."

https://www.ssusa.org/content/should-i-buy-a-single-stage-press-or-a-progressive/


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Interesting. When I first started out working in machine shops I was assigned the “sidewinder” stations running a polishing wheel as a sort of “wash-out” test. If a new hire could master using a 35lb, 2-1/2’ long electric tool with a 12” cotton rag wheel spinning 6500RPM in the 100+ heat/90%+ humidity, then they had a job and promotional opportunities. Next stop was the burr bench running air sanders and files. Mastering each stage of production also increases one’s knowledge of the previous step in the process. Deburring titanium bars taught me the importance of getting cutter gaps right, for example. Some guys never made it past the burr bench, after having been given the opportunity to do so. They didn’t get running machines. One guy I worked for on the bench had the missing fingers to show he had tried running a mill and not gotten the processes right.
I look at the AMU’s advice in a similar fashion: what they’re saying is, it’s important to learn the “why” as well as the “what.” I agree but won’t go so far as to say EVERYONE needs the equivalent experience of sweating in the Florida sun running a polishing tool to be able to run a progressive press or they’ll end up losing a finger.

As my Grandpappy used-to say, "you come into this world using a single stage and you go out of this world using a single stage."

We try all sorts of stuff in-between based-upon what stage in our lives we are in and what we are doing at the time I guess. I still have his 1950s era Rock Chucker (plus some I've bought since) ... I don't have either of my 650s anymore.

Rule3 said:

it illustrates why we at the AMU handloading shop agree in recommending that new handloaders should begin with a single-stage press. Once one thoroughly learns the steps in each phase of handloading by repeated experience, then one will be qualified to move on to a progressive press

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Very good advice.

Buy a good single stage press, and once you had made enough errors in setup and reloading, and stopped making them, a progressive press might be something in your future!

I feel exactly the same way about so many fundamentals. Learning to shoot with iron sights is just another people will say I'm wrong and stupid but I'm going to give my opinion, not force anyone to live by it.

AJC1 said:

Learning to shoot with iron sights…

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There’s another way?

GeoDudeFlorida said:

There’s another way?

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Would you believe me if I told you the tacticool croud love their optics.

As a counterpoint:

Barf.

And also Barf to teaching new shooters on iron sights. That’s just as bad as “learn to shoot a DAO revolver, then everything else is easy!” Like learning to ride a bike while wearing roller skates.

I wouldn’t send a new framer to a job site with a handsaw. Buy the right tool for the task. For SOME reloaders, a single stage press IS the right tool. For most, it’s not.

Rule3 said:

it illustrates why we at the AMU handloading shop agree in recommending that new handloaders should begin with a single-stage press. Once one thoroughly learns the steps in each phase of handloading by repeated experience, then one will be qualified to move on to a progressive press.

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Count me as one of the “unqualified” to begin my reloading journey on a progressive press.

I find these proclamations from the AMU to be a bit on the condescending side.

I did a lot of research before making the decision on my first press. A lot of the folks that listened to the “new reloaders must start on a single stage press” mantra later regretted not getting a progressive press from the get-go.

If you are just starting out take whatever course you think is prudent. Just realize there’s more than one path, the decree from the AMU notwithstanding.

taliv said:

For someone trying to make precision rifle ammo, while it can be done on a progressive, it will prob be extremely frustrating and take lots of trial and error. Odds of success are much higher on a single stage

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I disagree.

As it relates to precision rifle loading, I can run my 650 like a single stage press, trickling charges up to the desired weight then seating the bullet in the next pull of the handle. Having a dedicated tool head means I don’t have to change dies between these steps.

I can also run it progressively when sizing the brass, and do it a lot faster than a single stage.

Because it’s a quality press with quality dies, I’m not giving up anything to a single stage relative to tolerances on the completed rounds or, more importantly, the results down range.

I say all of this in the context of @Rule3 ’s quotes from the AMU in his original post. The AMU doesn’t shoot in bench matches.

Nature Boy said:

Count me as one of the “unqualified” to begin my reloading journey on a progressive press.

I find these proclamations from the AMU to be a bit on the condescending side.

I did a lot of research before making the decision on my first press. A lot of the folks that listened to the “new reloaders must start on a single stage press” mantra later regretted not getting a progressive press from the get-go.

If you are just starting out take whatever course you think is prudent. Just realize there’s more than one path, the decree from the AMU notwithstanding.

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Like I said, I won’t say there’s only one way to do anything. I will say the advice is well meant and I didn’t see anything insulting or pejorative in it. In the end it’s a matter of the individual. Not everyone dedicates their lives to bench rest competition. Not everyone hunts for food. Not everyone wears camouflage when hunting - some of us do things our own way and don’t expect anyone else to follow our lead.
It’s not the tools, it’s the person using them. A poor craftsman blames his missed steps on the tool. A good craftsman simply learns from the mistakes and moves forward without the need to cast blame. I learned that lesson when I was still in grade school listening to the guys in my neighborhood who worked at the Cape. The pros left their egos at the door when they left for work.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

It’s not the tools, it’s the person using them.

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+1

To that I would add…’…and their intended purpose.’

Nature Boy said:

I find these proclamations from the AMU to be a bit on the condescending side.

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I thought for a minute or two before my response above of how to express this same sentiment more eloquently than I was able to put on the page at the time.

I’m not terribly certain AMU, the NRA, or Shooting Sports USA are terribly relevant for most shooters. I can say the quality of material for the Basics of Metallic Reloading class we offer is sufficiently weak that I no longer bother to offer their class for several years, even when I still instruct other forms of beginner reloader courses. Old stodgy organizations with out-dated, generic information which doesn’t survive contact with the modern reloader who can go online to find within minutes better and more relevant information for their specific application.

The ONLY process I use which I can defend as best done on a traditional single stage O press is hyrdoforming, for obvious reasons. I don’t even universal decap on a traditional single stage any more!

After 40+ years of running a single stage shotgun reloader (MEC 600 Jr) and 30 years of using a Rockchucker for hunting rifle ammunition, I bought a Dillion 550C in early 2020 as I saw the writing in the wall, early.

I had spent dozens of hours in my 20 degree garage, propane heater at my feet, pumping out 3 .380 rounds every 2 minutes, after I got everything set up.

I knew handgun ammunition was gonna be a different game.

I was on my weekly, 75 minute journey to the nearest town to check out Scheels. Sportsmans and Cabelas for primers. I saw a Dillion 550C on the shelf at Scheels. I asked the salesman how long they would last? There were 7 of them. He told me last Friday they stocked 15 750s mid day Friday and they were all gone by the time he went home in Saturday.

I grabbed it!!!

I was driving my 40 mpg commuter car and I threw it in the trunk.

it sat there for 6+ months!

One day I told myself, “Self, you need to get that thing out and figure it out!!! No way are you gonna make your goal of 1,000 rounds for every caliber handgun you own doing it this way.”

Now I have tool plates for .380, 9mm, .40, 38, .357 and .223 and have exceeded my goal.

I was actually scared of the progressive.

Side note. About 20 years ago I bought all the reloading stuff from a friend who decided he wasn’t going to shoot anymore. 30 gallon garbage bags of wads, 3 large tubs of hulls, couple 100 lbs of shot. And a MEC 650 Grabber. I used all the wads, shot, still working on the hills. But I never used the press! Each time I think about it I rationalize that the hour it takes me to set it up, I could knock out 4 boxes on the single stage 600 Jr.

I also disagree. Buy a good progressive and just run one bullet at a time through it until you get familiar/comfortable enough to dial things up. Win-win, IMO. I use a funnel powder drop on my progressives when I am doing high precision rifle stuff. I've been reloading for close to 40 years, and have never owned a single stage. They just make no sense to me personally.

Nature Boy said:

I find these proclamations from the AMU to be a bit on the condescending side.

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Maybe if you think about their perspective, first?

The AMU is loading ammunition for competition, not cranking out 1000rds for a weekend blast.

To each his own, however. I have a single-stage side-by-side with my Hornady progressive. I prefer loading rifle on the single-stage because I can control the process easier, and can pay more attention to detail if I'm pulling the handle on 1 cartridge at a time, vs 5 at a time. Not saying I don't use the Hornady when I'm cranking out range ammos... I do. The Hornady press (I have the old ProJector...) is actually very easy to manipulate, and take cartridges in and out of the cycle... but I prefer loading them singly.

Charlie98 said:

Maybe if you think about their perspective, first?

The AMU is loading ammunition for competition, not cranking out 1000rds for a weekend blast.

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I’m fully aware of what the AMU does

I worked with several apprentices during my work as an Auto/Heavy Equipment Electrician. All started out learning about plain old lead/acid batteries then worked up to computerized functions. The apprentices got a good base to build on and retained knowledge better than jumping right in to digital engine controls...

It doesn’t take much consideration to realize that the infantile newbie isn’t an infantile newbie for long.

Rule3 said:

Again this was aimed at new to the hobby, not the resident experts.

Lets not get hung up on the source of the information
Most people (based on posts) who want to get into reloading, know little to nothing. The don't know the difference of the dies and how they work let alone all the steps required
A single stage can always be used after graduation to progressives.
Those that advocate using a progressive one round at a time, well that is pretty much single stage
A Lee turret is a single stage only advantage is not handling the brass as many times.
Progressives have a lot going on with them, when the new reloader needs to concentrate on other things

When teaching someone to shoot you don't normally start them out with a 44 Mag. Usually a 22 is a better introduction

Here is a guide by RCBS showing all the steps


https://www.rcbs.com/rcbs-how-to-reload/rcbs-step-by-step-reloading.html

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Yup. Seems like we can't turn around these days without offending somebody, though.
I kinda wish there were more newbies interested in something other than over-max loads and multi-mag dumps but, those aren't the times we live in.
I'm the exception to most rules and I know it. I have been known to load from one to one cylinder's worth of rounds in four or five different calibers in an evening watching the fireflies dance. I don't think using a progressive press would be an advantage to my style of shooting or handloading. But, that's me. YMMV.