Cartridge vs. Caliber

Bwana John · Dec 23, 2022

I remember when my Dad explained caliber as a the length of the barrel, divided by the diameter of the bore.

ie, a 5”/ 50 caliber gun had a 5” diameter bore, and a 250” (20’ 10”) long barrel.

I still have his trench art ash trays made by cutting the base off of the bottom of the empty 5”/ 50 caliber brass.

.308 Norma · Dec 23, 2022

Buzznrose said:
30.06 Springfield, .308 Remington, .300 Win Mag are cartridges of .308 caliber.

I think you meant .308 Winchester (not ".308 Remington") didn't you? My .308 Norma Mag is also .308 caliber, and ballistically it's almost identical to the .300 Win Mag.

westernrover · Dec 23, 2022

Bwana John said:
I remember when my Dad explained caliber as a the length of the barrel, divided by the diameter of the bore.

ie, a 5”/ 50 caliber gun had a 5” diameter bore, and a 250” (20’ 10”) long barrel.

I still have his trench art ash trays made by cutting the base off of the bottom of the empty 5”/ 50 caliber brass.

View attachment 1122780

Yes. The way we would read 5"/50 would be a "five-inch gun of fifty calibers."
I prefer a .357"/14 or a .357" revolver of 14 calibers. 3, 4, and 6" barrels aren't even multiples of the caliber.

Obturation · Dec 23, 2022

Not interchangeable . 45 acp & 45 colt are the same caliber but clearly not the same cartridge as an example . it irritates me way more than it should to hear caliber misused constantly . not much you can do though. Like cartridge & bullet, the word cartridge doesn't even exist in most folks vocabulary.

.308 Norma · Dec 23, 2022

I used to work with a guy that must have asked me at least a half dozen times, "Which is the most powerful, a 44 or a 45?" He never could understand how a "smaller" gun could be more powerful than a "bigger" gun.
That wasn't the worst of it though. I don't know if he ever got himself one or not, but he'd wanted a 1911 of some kind ever since he fired one while he was in the service, and he called all 1911s "45s"

.

AJC1 · Dec 23, 2022

.308 Norma said:
I used to work with a guy that must have asked me at least a half dozen times, "Which is the most powerful, a 44 or a 45?" He never could understand how a "smaller" gun could be more powerful than a "bigger" gun.
That wasn't the worst of it though. I don't know if he ever got himself one or not, but he'd wanted a 1911 of some kind ever since he fired one while he was in the service, and he called all 1911s "45s".

A 10mm vs a 45 must have sent him into fits.

eddiememphis · Dec 23, 2022

film495 said:
are these interchangable now?

No.

Precision in language is necessary if you want to have an intelligent conversation.

The more articulate and precise you are, the less room for ambiguity.

tlf65 · Dec 23, 2022

What caliber bullet would you buy to load a 38-40 cartridge?

Buzznrose · Dec 23, 2022

.308 Norma said:
I think you meant .308 Winchester (not ".308 Remington") didn't you? My .308 Norma Mag is also .308 caliber, and ballistically it's almost identical to the .300 Win Mag.

Sure did! Sorry! I fixed it.

AJC1 · Dec 23, 2022

tlf65 said:
What caliber bullet would you buy to load a 38-40 cartridge?

That's kinda tricky because Hornaday calls .355 thirty five cal and .357 thirty eight caliber. Two thousandths is far from 3 calibers.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/hornady-355-35-165-grain-ftx-flex-tip-bullet-100-350-legend/
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/hornady-357-38-110-gr-hp-xtp-xtp/

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 23, 2022

Soonerpesek said:
There are many different cartridges that use the same caliber bullet

This ^^^. Cartridge has a head stamp, caliber has a diameter/bore? Works for me.

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 23, 2022

tlf65 said:
What caliber bullet would you buy to load a 38-40 cartridge?

The one that fits my barrel. :thumbup:

AJC1 · Dec 23, 2022

Is the cheat code to just identify the bore in decimal form like .310. It's my basic default and eliminates confusion.

MEHavey · Dec 23, 2022

....are these interchangable now?

Uuuuuhhh... No.
https://www.breachbangclear.com/50-shades-of-45-caliber/

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 23, 2022

AJC1 said:
Is the cheat code to just identify the bore in decimal form like .310. It's my basic default and eliminates confusion.

You mean like 9mm Luger and 9mm Makarov? Both diameter 9mm so they should all use the same … oops.

I get the drift but then you have to consider some .32-20 are .312” while the some loading manuals list .308” for .32-20 and others list .310”. And then there’s the way some European calibers are described through time - the above 9mm are just one example. Or is it two examples? 7.62x54R and .303Brit… and 7.7Jap or is it 7.65Argentine? All use a bullet with nominal diameter of around, oh say, .311”-.313”. Unless they predate the switch to measuring grooves across the muzzle versus throat. :scrutiny:

AJC1 · Dec 23, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
You mean like 9mm Luger and 9mm Makarov? Both diameter 9mm so they should all use the same … oops.
I get the drift but then you have to consider some .32-20 are .312” while the some loading manuals list .308” for .32-20 and others list .310”. And then there’s the way some European calibers are described through time - the above 9mm are just one example. Or is it two examples? 7.62x54R and .303Brit… and 7.7Jap or is it 7.65Argentine? All use a bullet with nominal diameter of around, oh say, .311”-.313”. Unless they predate the switch to measuring grooves across the muzzle versus throat.

.310 is my cast 30-30 and .312 is my 7.7 jap. This is extremely important for the 8mm mousers that have a .317 and .321 I think??? I don't do 8mm but I know it's a big issue.

tominboise · Dec 23, 2022

Hooda Thunkit said:
Or even worse: heads

Or freedom seeds.

Now you went and got me started...

Right. Or "pew pews".....

MonkTx · Dec 23, 2022

Buzznrose said:
As I understand it….

.308 is a caliber.

30.06 Springfield, .308 Winchester, .300 Win Mag are cartridges of .308 caliber.

But I’m not a guy to tell someone who uses the term “clip” versus “magazine” they are wrong, since life it too short to worry such things.

I've not found another hobby that draws so many people that so eagerly await the opportunity jump on the chance to correct a person about minutiae as firearms.

.308 Norma · Dec 24, 2022

tlf65 said:
What caliber bullet would you buy to load a 38-40 cartridge?

Concerning the 38-40 Winchester (38 W.C.F.), my Speer Manual #14 has this to say: "The cartridge name is a misnomer; it should have been called the '40-40.' The bullet diameter is 0.401 inches and many Colt barrels are as large as 0.403 inches."

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 24, 2022

AJC1 said:
.310 is my cast 30-30 and .312 is my 7.7 jap. This is extremely important for the 8mm mousers that have a .317 and .321 I think??? I don't do 8mm but I know it's a big issue.

Lol!!! Yeah, that’s a whole other level of weird right there. 8mm in the infantry rifle was originally was a nominal .318” but the later 7.92mm was a nominal .323”. Contract Mausers were also made with whatever barrel/bore the customer wanted. So you will find 9.3mm Mausers with .368” bore vs the more typical .366”. 8x50R and 8x52R are .321”/.320”, respectively but the later Austrian 8x56Rmm are .329”. It can get a little messy.

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 24, 2022

mrawesome22-250 said:
i load my 556 caliber with 22 cartridge bullet head tips i get the bullet recipies from a layman manuel

Is Manuel’s last name Labor?

CraigC · Dec 24, 2022

Correct terminology is a pet peeve of mine. I try to be a good example but I don't recall ever correcting someone else on it. Doesn't make my eye twitch near as bad as clip/magazine or .45 "Long" Colt. I'll only delve into it if someone else does the correcting and the offending party defends their inaccuracy.

GeoDudeFlorida · Dec 24, 2022

CraigC said:
Correct terminology is a pet peeve of mine. I try to be a good example but I don't recall ever correcting someone else on it. Doesn't make my eye twitch near as bad as clip/magazine or .45 "Long" Colt. I'll only delve into it if someone else does the correcting and the offending party defends their inaccuracy.

Didn’t John Taffin provide examples of .45Short Colts dating back to the 1890’s in one of his articles? I think it was in relation to the two different cylinder lengths of the US Army-issued .45US revolvers, one by Colts and the other by Smith &Wesson?

CraigC · Dec 24, 2022

GeoDudeFlorida said:
Didn’t John Taffin provide examples of .45Short Colts dating back to the 1890’s in one of his articles? I think it was in relation to the two different cylinder lengths of the US Army-issued .45US revolvers, one by Colts and the other by Smith &Wesson?

There was the hybrid .45Colt Gov't. The "Long" nickname didn't come into use until it was loaded commercially in the 1920's but we don't need to get into it here.

joneb · Dec 24, 2022

The cartridge will give you a good idea of the diameter, just saying a caliber gives no clue as to what cartridge.
Using the proper terminology in a reloading forum could help reduce the risk of someone getting incorrect information.

Cartridge vs. Caliber

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