Non expanding bullets

rhtwist

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Joined
Nov 23, 2004
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701
Hello,
Looking for some insight into the non-expanding bullets I see online and their real world effectiveness. This would be for smaller handgun calibers, .32acp & .380. Do they actually cause more trauma and energy transfer than a fmj of the same caliber?
Opinions welcome, experienced opinions even moreso!
 
Opinions? Take the number of people asked and you can multiply by 1.6 to 2.5 and sum the number of opinions :)

Gel testing is a whole separate set of flamewars/opinions, too.

There is something to be said for the feed reliability from FMJ in the smaller calibers. Is that "enough"? Dunno.

If a person wanted to look at effects on people shot with those smaller calibers, most of those records are going to date back to before the proliferation of commercial JHP (historically, 32acp was a police caliber in Europe & Asia, and dates back to JMB's creation of the 32acp; 380/9x17 ammo use was largely military when not police, and from an eaqually early time).

Wuld I tell you you were wrong to carry FMJ in your 32acp or 380? Nope, that's not my place--you do you. Also, if you group FMJ better than JHP, and/or you are more confident shooting the FMJ, that likely matters far more than if the bullet gets a few millimeters larger in diameter or poke in a few more centimeters.

But, that's just my 2¢; other's are like to differ.
 
In every gun forum, this has been visited and revisited, hashed and rehashed so many times it is impossible to count.

‘Choot what style of bullet you want to, as your opinion and experience with your handgun are truly the only ones that matter to you. :)

Stay safe.
 
Hello,
Looking for some insight into the non-expanding bullets I see online and their real world effectiveness. This would be for smaller handgun calibers, .32acp & .380. Do they actually cause more trauma and energy transfer than a fmj of the same caliber?
Opinions welcome, experienced opinions even moreso!

Can you provide some specific brand names
 
I think if you shoot enough to be able to repetitively put the rounds where they need to go, what the type of rounds are, isnt going to much matter. Just as long as they arent blanks.:thumbup:

A lot of people seem to think that buying fancy ammo will make up for their lack of skill. It wont. ;)
 
Do they actually cause more trauma and energy transfer than a fmj of the same caliber?

Assuming both stop in the target, the energy transfer will be the same- 100%. If they pass through, there are too many variables to answer accurately.

Cause more trauma? No way to predict. Every target and every shot are different. Ask any hunter.

There have been many volumes written about terminal ballistics. Seek them out if you have a few hundred hours to do a deep dive on the subject.
 
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Can you provide some specific brand names

Which non-expanding, non-FMJ bullets do you mean?
I know of some non-expanding, nasty wounding 9mms but not for the small calibers.

Hello and thanks for all the feedback. I was mainly thinking about the Underwood penetrator and or defender bullets in standard pressure loading. Just recently realized that there were many types including plastic with copper shavings???!!! So far the hollow point rounds I've seen "tested" seem to be problematic. Asking here to see if there was a consensus of opinion on the idea of a solid bullet that causes more damage and equal penetration to the standards.
Things are changing and I have not kept up to date, so I was checking in here for some possible updates. Apparently not enough data on the ammo's effectiveness to get a more definite answer.
I am pretty confident in .45 and .357 magnum assuming I've done my part. Although the .32 and .380 were used in wars....
What hollow points would be suggested?
Thanks again
 
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Gel testing with side by side results is what you need to look at.
Howdy hso,
I have been watching several channels on the YT, but one does what appears to be consistent testing of differing ammunition in the same block, with and without coverings. Good point,
Appreciated!
 
Hello Night Rider,
That was an interesting read. Have considered going to a modern 9mm.
Thanks for the info!

Going with 9mm makes finding decent* HP ammo much easier.
*Decent defined (my me) as penetrating at least 12'' and having consistent expansion.
Winchester product testing:
https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx
380 T series fails to achieve 12'' penetration whether bare gel (7.6'' / .65) or heavy clothed gel (7.8'' / .64)
9mm offerings that provide decent ;) performance: 127 +P+ T series, 147 T series, 147 Bonded

In before anyone posted:
"wouldn't want or nobody volunteer to get shot by it" (Duh) in regard to 32 or 380 FMJ.
Also, "better than nothing" which is not yet posted - that is not a lofty goal.
dancing-banana-banana.gif
 
Right, as I was going from holster to pocket carry, I jumped from .32 to 9mm (with a side helping of .38 Special).
I had rather shoot a subcompact 9mm than a nasty little .380.
But still, 25 rounds in a few minutes at GSSF Indoor is about all the fun I want with the Glock 43.
 
Hello,
Looking for some insight into the non-expanding bullets I see online and their real world effectiveness. This would be for smaller handgun calibers, .32acp & .380. Do they actually cause more trauma and energy transfer than a fmj of the same caliber?
Opinions welcome, experienced opinions even moreso!

Only points I’ve read about that make sense to me is round nose FMJ bullets don’t travel in as straight a line as flat nose bullets. Also, the solid fluted bullets like the extreme penetrator/defense rounds are barrier blinds and act to disrupt tissue regardless what they travel through (within reason).
 
The problem with ammo for the sub-optimal, non-duty calibers is that you have to choose between penetration and expansion. The rounds that expand a lot generally will fail in the penetration department, and the ones that penetrate generally don’t expand. I prioritize reaching the important parts and breaking them over pretty mushrooms. For me, that also includes barrier penetration, not just plain gel and clothed gel testing. I have shot a bunch of standard pressure .380 ammo against some stout barriers, and ALL of the hollowpoints and lead core FMJ have failed miserably against barriers that standard pressure 9mm and 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints will sail right through.

My locked breech .380s are loaded with Underwood standard pressure 68 grain XD rounds. That was the round that penetrates barriers but does not overpenetrate in the absence of barriers.

Barrier test 1

My 9mm P365 shooting 124 grain standard pressure Gold Dots against the same array resulted in the bullet sticking out of the back of jug 2.

Barrier Test 2


No barriers:

I shot this one other time and the round penetrated to the back of jug 4 and made a dent in jug 5. The wind was too crazy to publish that one. Also, a 124 grain standard pressure 9mm Gold Dot fired out of a Sig P365XL expanded a lot but stopped in jug 3.

The OP mentioned the plastic/copper powder rounds. Here is one:


Blazer FMJ:

I re-ran this test and got the same result.

I have some hollow point videos if someone wants to see a particular one that I have.

I should also point out that the P365-380 loaded with these Underwoods is a lot easier to shoot rapidly, with no loss of accuracy, than my 9mm version of P365. Also note that the .380 has open sights while the 9mm version has an RDS.
 
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