.243 versus 7mm-08

jacksdaddy said:

I know this has been dished out before... but which round would be the most versitile for a lightweight bolt gun. I do intend to get into reloading, and shootability and cost are factors, but mostly I want versitility in available bullet weights and the ability to take small game up through whitetail (max weight 200lbs around here) out to 400m. It will be out of a shorter barrel, in the 16-18" range. Thanks!

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In my opinion only the 7mm08 meets your critera. IMO The 243 neither has the power to cleanly take large deer much past 300 doubly so in a carbine.

I've owned 243's and never could get this cartridges appeal. It recoils too much, burns too much powder and is too hard on barrels to be a first rate varmint gun and is flat out too light to be a top notch medium game rifle

flame me if you will but that's my opinion

Oh, you're going to get flamed krochus, you can count on that. However it will not be by me. I have never been on the .243/6mm bandwagon, and won't ever be. So I'll join you and take some of the heat too. Give me a choice of .243, or just about anything else, and I'll take just about anything else. Just my opinion.

get a 260 remington.

I think a .308 would be a better choice to meet some of your criteria......but a .308 isn't part of your criteria:banghead:

A carbine length barrel usually works best with the heaviest bullets - key word is "usually".....
Is it possible your stumbling over the (just) about perfect combo in a 6.5 swede or a .260 ?
From the 2 choices listed - a "NORMAL" twist rate shows you would be better off with a 7mm bullet, but with a tight twist on the 6mm bullets opens up a whole new world.
115gr DTAC or 105 Nosler custom comp., are very nice on the target - and in a 6mm, bullet weights are getting up there for the consumer.
Short and sweet - 7-08 fits your criteria.

I've said it before and I will again: when Winchester makes the new Model 70 Featherweight in .260, I will put in my order.

I never really warmed up to the Rem model 7 i owned in 7mm-08.
It had really bad barrel whip and over the counter ammo was never that easy to find at Ned's Bait N Beer.
Sold it.
I much preferred my Remington 600's in 308,243,and 6mm.
Except for the 6mm ammo was always readily available.
Fwiw my 18.5 inch barrel 600's in 243 and 308 will hold dime size groups with over the counter ammo in 150 gr.(308) and 100 gr in 243.

jacksdaddy said:

How light a bullet can you go in the 7mm? Thinking for smaller game, targét shooting and recoil control purposes.

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around 110grs all the way up to 175

Krochus -- right on. Though I have 243s I consider them too heavy for varmints and too light for real game! A 7/308 is on my to get list. The 7mm bullets are great, a good range of wirhts, The 7/308 is a short action. Good round. 243 and 7/308 are both based on the 308 cases that has proven itself.

I've said it before and I will again: when Winchester makes the new Model 70 Featherweight in .260, I will put in my order.

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+1, I'll take a couple Win M70 FWs too...both in cartridges that they don't offer...a .375H&H and .260Rem. Do they have plans for the .260?

7MM-08 I agree with all the above. Sold my .243

The .243 Handi Rifle I had made more noise and recoil than my featherweight .257 Mauser, not to mention being less accurate. Apples to oranges, I know, but I was real disappointed in the .243 and I too fail to see what really makes it the 'better mousetrap' so many say it is...

Since you stated that you plan to reload, I say go with the 7mm-08. I have never shopped for 7mm-08 ammo, but I woud think that .243 ammo would be easier to find. I think the thought of the .260 and the .308 mentioned previously might be worth looking into before you make your decision.

In my opinion only the 7mm08 meets your critera. IMO The 243 neither has the power to cleanly take large deer much past 300 doubly so in a carbine.

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I second this statement! But I had an old Dodge P/U i thought was the truck to have, got 6 quarts to the mile...was pretty easy on gas though. As I look back...what a turd!

Point is, people have many different and argumentative opinions on a question such as this.

The .243 is small for deer hunting, I know people will disagree and some will point to the fact many deer have been taken with even lesser calibers but the fact remains the same.

The 243 is small, low powered and doesn't carry much authority downrange. Yea, it's flat and fast, but that's about it.

You'll have to be a disciplined hunter to use one successfully as the shot your presented with has to be somewhat optimum...you can't plow with a 243. lol

It recoils too much, burns too much powder and is too hard on barrels to be a first rate varmint gun and is flat out too light to be a top notch medium game rifle

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Again...ditto. But with practice, it can be successfully used as a good varminter...there is are many better cartridges out there for this feat though.

IMHO, I nominate the 7mm-08 for your round of choice.

It has the power to make imperfect shot, excellent downrange numbers, shoots flat and expresses mild recoil. Using Hornady Light Magnum 139gr ammo, this round will hang with the 30-06.

And accurate...oh yea, accurate!

Ditto Krochus and others....

I've had several .243's. I've got two .257Roberts, and a .257wby. Also, .22-250, .223's, 7-30Waters and 7mm08, not to mention .30/30,.30/06, .338/06, .35Rem, .45/70 and others.

If I could only keep one, it'd be the 7mm08. It's light, reasonably accurate, and effective out of proportion.... just like it's senior sibling ,the 7x57 Mauser.

The .243 is an "in-between" and dosn't do the job of either a dedicated varmint rifle, nor big-game rifle. I've had more bullet "failures" due to blow-ups in big-game (deer) with the .243 than any others. Also saw more "lost" deer due to such in my 25yr career as a Conservation Enforcement officer than with anyother cartridge except maybe buckshot.

I too have a Rem Mod-7 in 7mm08. It's taken pigs, deer, and elk. It's got a 20"bbl and is fully the equal of the .30/06 which I consider the base of comparison for any big-game rifle. I get 3,100fps with 120gr and RL15; 2,900fps with a 140gr bullet, 2,800fps with a 150gr, and 2,650fps with a 162gr (w/IMR4350 ......). No real difference in energy, and a slightly flatter trajectory than the '06. Bullet performance is essentially identical.

I consider the 7mm08 to be the equal of .270win .308wcf and .30/06 due to excellent b.c. of the 7mm bullets. Ballistic tables bear this out. My favorite bullet is the 139gr Hornady BTSP, followed closely by the 140gr Sierra BTSP and 140gr Rem CorLokt- a much better bullet than it "looks" to be.

I've used the 100gr HP Hornady bullets in the 7mm08 as well as the 7-30Waters. They would do nicely on any varmint duties. Both of my rifles shoot them accurately (sub moa), though I prefer the Speer 115gr HP due to it's superior accuracy.

I think for larger whitetail, the 7mm-08 is a better choice. BUT, the .243 is a great deer caliber with good bullets. Don't underestimate it. I've killed a lot of deer with one when I was young.

This past weekend my dad killed an antelope with one shot at over 400 yards (rangefinder measured) with a .243 shooting 87 grain handloads.

I personally would go with a .308 over a 7mm-08 if you are mainly hunting deer and won't be shooting over 300 yards. More and cheaper ammo selection. Can be loaded up to near 30-06 performance and can be loaded down with 125-130 grain ammo for recoil sensitive shooters. The 7mm-08 doesn't really offer any real trajectory advantages over a .308 until past 300 yards and the recoil is basically identical.

as much as I love the 243, your conditions say take the 7.08. Though not good for small vamints, you can proly get 100 grainers in 7mm, and up to 160 grainers, for the big stuff at distance.

rangerruck said:

as much as I love the 243, your conditions say take the 7.08. Though not good for small vamints, you can proly get 100 grainers in 7mm, and up to 160 grainers, for the big stuff at distance.

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While true that in the varmint role the same marks I apply against the 243 apply to the 7mm08 as well. Unlike the way too inbetween 243 I'd much much rather overkill small game such as marmots, woodchucks, crows, sloths, chu and meercats that underkill medium game hogs,whitetail, antelope, mulies and aardvark

Depends

Really it depends upon what you mean by "versatile".

If you mean "versatile to take a variety of large game, from small large game to very large large game", then the answer is the bigger'n.

If you mean "versatile to take varmints, medium, and large game", then the answer is the littler'n.

But I do *get* the appeal of the .243 Win, and would have to vote that without more info. I love it. I figured if the Inuit kill everything up to and including polar bears with the .223, the .243 win, as a couple of steps up in power, is pretty much overkill for anything I'd run into.

The .243 is a bit flatter shooting out to around 300 yards... past that, the 7mm-08 is superior both in terms of trajectory AND energy. Since the vast vast majority of hunting shots occur under 300 yards, you gotta like the extended PBR of the .243 (assuming it has the oomph for what you're going after). With an 85-100 grain "hunting-construction" bullet and a brain shot, there ain't an animal on the North American continent that will have it bounce off or deflect - ain't a skull that thick! So therefore it also depends on how good and precise you're gonna place your shots, and how close you get, and how well you know your anatomy. Shooting game in the head at 30 yards with a "underpowered rifle" that you shoot well will result in meat on the table infinitely more often than a hail mary at 400 yards (i.e. a miss) with a 7mm-08 or any other loudenboomer you want to choose. Not to mention be more humane/ethical.

Having said all that, with the shorter barrel you mention, that fact favors the 7mm08, since the larger bores LOSE less performance from a barrel reduction.

But heck, why not split the difference and get a .260 Rem?

FWIW, Not counting muzzleloaders, my 3 huntin' rifle chamberings for the lower 48 are: .243 win with 90s (little deer, goats, sheep, antelope, etc.), .260 Rem with 120s-129s (big deer, little hogs, little black bear), and .280 Rem with 139s-150s (elk & Shira moose, big boar hogs, big black bear).

Of these three, recently, my go-to rifle is the .243 Win. While I do plan to make the .260 my primary rifle when I transition to it, as of now the .243 will get the call for big game - having said that, the only big game I'll be going after for the foreseeable future is whitetails.

My 3 huntin rifle chamberings, not counting muzzleloaders, for Canada/Alaska & Africa (so far) are: .30-'06 (big elk, moose, & caribou, small African plains game), 9.3x62mm (Yak, Bison, Brown bear, polar bear, leopard, lion, and large African plains game like Eland), and .45-70 gov't with buffalo bore ammo (large mean dangerous African stuff). Plan to add a .416 Rigby or similar at some point.

Dr. Tad,

How do you know whether you will encounter a small black bear or a large black bear, and therefore which rifle to bring?

Oh, when it comes to shooting deer bullets, the .243 and the 7mm-08 have essentially the same level of "flatness."

http://www.remington.com/products/a...ve_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R243W3*R7M081

CoreLokt: 100gr .243 vs. 140gr 7mm-08 - difference of 0.3" at 300 yards and and 0.8" at 400 yards.

If I were you, I wouldn't get the rifle with a barrel shorter than 20" for either caliber. A 16-18" barrel really compromises performance for a very minimal decrease in weight. Just load three rounds instead of five or get a few oz lighter scope and you'll have accomplished the same thing. I'd be hesitant to shoot a large deer at 400 meters with a 16-18" barreled 7mm-08 and I definitely wouldn't do it with a .243 with that short of a barrel.

If I were you, I wouldn't get the rifle with a barrel shorter than 20" for either caliber.

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I agree with that and will go a bit further and say that 20" is a little short for my taste. I would opt for a 22-24" barrel for just about any of the high velocity bottleneck cartridges. For magnums I prefer a 24-26" barrel as a minimum. A .308 or larger (with similar case volume) is better suited to a short barrel IMO. 400M is a long way out, and the velocity is important for energy retention, accuracy, and a favorable trajectory.

Having said that, a .260Rem. is a very good long range cartridge (as is the 6.5Swede), that, when coupled with a good rifle with a 24" barrel, should do quite well at your maximum range. It has a good selection of projectiles, moderate recoil, good efficiency, and will take deer as good as any other.

This is a question I wouldn't even have to think about (for your purposes).

Go with the 7mm-08.

I moved my daughter up from a .243 to the 7mm about 10 years ago. Man....what a difference.

I only wish I had discovered/tried the cartridge many years earlier. I am now a solid fan of the 7mm-08 for medium sized, thin skinned game.

If you handload....it becomes all the more versatile.