Good Bear Rifle/Round

What kind of terrain, ranges? Are you baiting?

What kind of terrain, ranges? Are you baiting?

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Just be a nice guy and loan him your ZKK 602.

cant go wrong with a .45-70 for bear. we use dogs here and normally use .44mag rifles

Anything from a .270 on up would work great on bears. Why the desire to keep the shots on the long side?

The let you hunt with rifles in NJ now?

If so I agree with the above post

Bears really are not hard to kill with a well placed shot. I have seem many killed with .243's. If a lighter gun is used avoid the heavy shoulder bone and muscle as it can be alot to penetrate. Guiding all those years I became a fan of big holes. Bear fat has a tendancy to clog small diameter bullet holes quickly. If tracking needs to be done it can become a nightmare fast when the blood trail runs out. That said, .270, .308 and .30-06, .45-70 and .30-.30's seem to be the most common cartridges used by locals in bear country. A 7mm is another great candidate for the ranges you are talking about. The majority of clients I have had over the years apparently read too many bear horror stories and normally shot big magnum calibers, which made my recovery job easy, but can play hell on a hide if they hit bone on their way through. At close range heavy pistol calibers work great, and open big holes. (.41 mag, .44mag, .460, and .500 S&W. My personal favorites are .30-06 with 200 grain soft points, and the .35 Whelen stoked with 250 grain SP. But to ech their own. I definately would not feel under gunned with a .243 on a mid-sized black bear. For their lighter colored cousins, I would definately want something with a little more smack.

Good hunting.

I definately would not feel under gunned with a .243 on a mid-sized black bear. For their lighter colored cousins, I would definately want something with a little more smack.

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depends what you mean by "mid-sized" we have some of the largest black bears in the country, the record of heaviest was taken in my home county in i think 98. 400+lbs arent uncommon and a .44mag rifle is the smallest i feel safe with when hunting close. my normal truck gun which has taken bears is my .30-30 and even that didnt drop a 330 with a double lung shot.

a .45-70, .444, .450 marlin are what i prefer for bear when there is the chance of having a bear that weighs more than 350lbs. but for hunting bean fields and corn fields i normally use 200gr bullets loaded on my .30-06

If you use a 45-70 should you go with the heavy loads like Buffalo Bore or can you get the job done right with regular factory 45-70 ammo? Lead or jacketed - I have a new 45-70 - of course.

30-06 worked fine in the past, but want to use the new toy.

I definately would not feel under gunned with a .243 on a mid-sized black bear. For their lighter colored cousins, I would definately want something with a little more smack.

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400+lbs arent uncommon and a .44mag rifle is the smallest i feel safe with

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Well that may be, the .243 imparts more energy than does the .44mag at the muzzle. Even with 55 grain FMJ. So to each there own. I classify a mid-sized bear between 200-400 pounds. Like I said I am a fan of big holes in targets. The .44 mag and .45-70 are both great bear guns up close and personal. However without a lot of practice the .45-70 is not a long range weapon. And I'm sure I'll get flack for that, but if you look at trajectory of the round, one had better do their homework. If you zero your rifle for 100 yards, where does that put you at 250 yards with a dead on aim? If you read the post by the author

I would like to keep my distance so probably more than 200 yds.

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the .45-70 is out-classed by some of the flatter shooting rounds mentioned by the other posters above. With a 405 grain factory .45-70 round the difference between 200 and 250 yards as far of point of impact goes can ALMOST be measured in feet rather than inches.

If you use a 45-70 should you go with the heavy loads like Buffalo Bore or can you get the job done right with regular factory 45-70 ammo? Lead or jacketed

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Unless you are hunting 1,200 pound Kodiak's in Alaska, standard weight 45-70 bullets will kill any bear in the country just fine.

Note the "standard" lead bullet loads are down-loaded to be safe in Trapdoor Springfield's and other old guns.

But Winchester, Remington, etc all load premium hunting loads to full power that will do a great job on black bear.

If 200 yards is in the cards, you might check out the Hornady leverevolution pointy tip loads as they improve long range trajectory somewhat.
http://www.hornady.com/store/leverevolution

rc

Thanks - I treat the 45-70 as a big bore 30-30 - 200 yds is the outer limit for my use.

I have taken a couple black bears one with a 45-70 and one with a 30-06. Both rifles worked great for the terrain I was in. I used the 45-70 guide gun hunting benind hounds in Idaho and ended up shooting a bear that was ground bayed not treed and was about ten feet maybe less from me when I shot him. The 405 grain bufflo bore round hit him under the chin and exited just above the tail, he didn't even blink after that. The other and bigger of the two was shot while I was elk hunting with an old ruger m77 30-06 and 180 g remy corloks. Brod side shot behind the sholder and he went about 20 yards and piled up.

I have seen them killed with 357 mag when treed and works fine if your a real good shot.

Don't forget that the bears in NJ may be pretty good size if they aint been hunted in a while, you could run into a 400# plus bear and that is alot more bear than the usual 200 to 250# bear. Maybe its just me but I would rather arm my self for the biggest bear I might find, verses picking something maybe on the light side. A wounded black bear in thick cover is a pretty scary tracking job and with out dogs it could be down right dangerous.
Good luck I am glad to see you all are going to get a chance to hunt black bear in your home state.

I used the buf bore 405 grain load when I packed the 45-70, probably more bullet than needed for black bear but it worked really really good. It passed through a 300# bear form stem to stern and raised all sorts of hell in between.

35whelen. A guy on the classifieds has a nice Rem for a great price. I have no connection to him. Just saying.....

Oops, sorry, my bad. Its on The Firing Line classifieds.

No baiting, it's mostly wooded, semi-mountainous areas. I would like to keep my distance so probably more than 200 yds.

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Where in NW Jersey do you think your going to get a 200+ yard shot? And did they announce you can use a rifle? My brother is planning on using a slug gun, if allowed, but suspects its gonna be a bow hunt.

We have property back where Kinnelon, Boonton Twp and Rockaway Twp meet - its PRIME bear country and frankly I don't know anyplace in the area where you are going to get a 100 yard shot on a bear let alone 200+ (unless you think your going to being firing a rifle in some heavily developed neighborhood or on a golf course).

I'd plan on the range being MUCH MUCH - less 35-50 yards or so (or even closer).

NJ is finally allowing a bear hunt this year and was wondering what you guys would recommend as a round or specific rifle?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Any good deer cartridge will be more than adequate for black bear. I highly doubt that NJ geography is much different than that here in the Catskills, Adirondaks, or the rest of upsate NY. Getting a clear 200yd shot is going to be very difficult in wooded terrain. The animal deserves more respect than that in the way of precise shot placement to ensure a quick humane harvest. Do folks shoot animals past that distance yes, but not as many as most would think. If you took an average hunter out in a large open field where you had a taget at 200yd, and asked him/her to judge the distance they would probably say it was more than 200yd away.

Regardless of what folks would like you to beleive you don't need a mini howitzer to dispatch a large Black bear either. IIRC back in 2004 one of the largest bears (600+ pounds) harvested in PA was by a 14 yr old boy in Potter county using a 30-30. Oh and as far as the Hornady 45-70 LeverEvolution goes they had a problem with the powder not to long ago. So they were using a different powder that was/is unable to live up to the stated velocities. I noticed this in a magazine that was published not so long ago that was that was entirely devoted to Hornady products. The chronographed velocities in the article that was devoted to the LeverEvolution ammo was 1890fps not the claimed 2050fps Look here to see the effect that a 30-30 will have on a good sized bear with proper shot placement. The same effect with any other good deer cartridge will end with the same results. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g4xILwfY60

Bow and arrow? We take quite a few around here with them. Only problem is your not gonna be 200 yards away, more like 40 at the most. 400grn arrow with a quality broad head would do you just fine.

Anything from a .270 on up would work great on bears.

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That's exactly what I was going to say.

As long as you use a reasonably high sectional density softpoint bullet, .270 and up is fine.

Re: the 45-70...it is good bear medicine.

Hornady did botch the LeveRevolution ammo...but I have no problem getting 300 grain bullets going up around 2,200 fps, and could safely push them to 2,400+ if I wanted to...I don't car for the gummy tips, not in 45-70.

Re: the 45-70...it is good bear medicine.

Hornady did botch the LeveRevolution ammo...but I have no problem getting 300 grain bullets going up around 2,200 fps, and could safely push them to 2,400+ if I wanted to...I don't car for the gummy tips, not in 45-70.

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Yup the 45-70 is good bear medicine no doubt. However unlike what some would lead others to believe the lesser calibers do just as well too, unless we're talking about 1,200 pound Kodiaks which is not what this topic is about. As for being able to launch those 300gr bullets at 2200-2400fps yup the 45-70 can do that too. However I like my retinas, shoulder, and fillings the way they are which is attached to where they need to be. If anyone feels that they have to prove something by shooting those type of loads than by all means do so. Not to mention you tell someone that is just starting out to use loads like that and they will develope a flinch from sadis, which will take forever to get rid of.

I can't get over how all of these Black Bear questions lead to the topic of grizzly and/or Kodiak bears and that you have to have a .50 BMG in order to be succesful. Otherwise your sure as sin to end up as bear dung. Last I checked black bear don't wear kevlar vests and any good deer cartridge will serve the OP poster well as long as he can place his shots well. The link to the video in my last post conveys that to a tee.

I used a Marlin .35 Rem. Had a black bear show up about 15 yards away from me out of some brush. One shot and and he stopped dead in his tracks looked at me and ran another 20 yards before falling down and expiring. He was about 260lbs.

You mean they are not bullet proof?

I wasn't trying to convince anybody on the 45-70...just stating my experience. I have put a few blackies down. Most of them with a .308, but the 45-70 is handier (the rifle is shorter, lighter and a lever action), and more forgiving of bad shot angles (not to be confused with bad shots).


336A,
You are blowing the recoil if the 45-70 with 300 grain bullets way out of proportion...its not that bad, even with hot loads. Now when you get to 400 grain bullets at nearly 1,900 fps it does have considerable recoil.

And...with factory loads the 45-70 is a pussy cat, with no more recoil than a 30-06...maybe not as much. These factory loads will anchor any black bear within 200 yards, but the trajectory is a bit arched. By loading the 300 grain bullets at 2,200 fps...the 45-70 is a genuine 200 yard round without the punishing recoil.

And last but not least...the 30-30, 35 Rem., 375 Win., 444 Marlin will also do the job, and quite well.

To the OP,

Get a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem...the middle ground. For black bear you CANNOT beat a lever action.

Just be a nice guy and loan him your ZKK 602.

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Might be a little too much rifle for black bears in the Lower 48. Since the OP says the range will be around 200 yards I'd go with a 165gr 30-06.