Shot 7 times with 9mm and lived to tell story

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Impureclient

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I learned something very discouraging tonight. A young man who is friends with my cousin was shot 7 times locally with a 9mm gun a close range. I am not 100% certain it was what he described it(9mm FMJ) as this was told to me second hand from my cousin. He was in bad shape but only hours after and he was sewn up he was talking about the shooting. He was hit five times from his neck down to his abdomen from behind and two went in the arm. I am guessing it was FMJ as they apparently went through him including one that was described as coming out the front and spilling intestines with it. The nurse said they pushed it all back in. Is this the luckiest kid alive here or do people take that many rounds of 9mm and live to tell about it? He said after he was shot the first 4 times he didn't feel it at first and only after the last three he went down. He later "woke up" and realized the shooter was coming back to make sure he was dead and had to hide in a ditch filled with water to hide. That is a lot to go through be able to move on your own. It now has me worried if I'm not carrying enough gun. Is there that huge a difference in hollow point and FMJ destruction? Some people on here say they carry FMJ and it seems like this would be a warning sign to stop and start carrying hollow points.

Also, apparently the shooter who is still "loose" out there also recently did a shooting at another random person just out in front of the street where I live. This kind of got me worried about if what I was carrying was sufficient. I like the 9mm because it is very controllable and my impression was it's better to hit with a smaller bullet than miss with a big one. I want to move now, this sucks.

Am I just being a worry wart and should I just remain calm as long as I have loaded hollow points?
 
Shot placement...he didn't take those rounds in the chest.

Guts, arms, etc...you'll eventually bleed out if you don't get to a doctor, but you have plenty of time usually.

The catch is...there are major blood vessels in the arms and legs, hit those and you're dead in just a couple minutes.

I saw a guy get stabbed in the upper leg during a bar fight...cut that artery, he was dead in about 2 minutes.
 
I bet he still stopped whatever he was doing and tried to GTF outta there, and that's all we really need anyone we have to shoot to do..
Yeah, that is not a good example of 9mm performance in general, but that is also not a general outcome.
 
Years ago, A number of FBI Agents got into a shootout with 2 naughty children. They were armed with 9's. When it was all over, several FBI were dead. I disremember what was used to kill the bad boys, but that convinced me that 9's were not really the ideal carry caliber. That is my humble opinion.

I am kinda wondering what would happen if I were to carry a 9 or 380 and, yes, there are those who carry a 32.

With the big push to lightweight, small and easily concealed handguns, I believe people are giving up their defensive knockdown power.

What do I carry? 44 special filled with Speer GDHP or Winchester STHP's.

Whole lot better than 9mm.
 
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
  • Bullets are little.
  • Because they are little they make little holes.
  • Little holes involve very little tissue disruption.
A bullet (even a "huge" bullet like a .45 bullet) MIGHT destroy a QUARTER of a percent (0.25%) of a person if it's a solid hit.

That means that a bullet hole will leave 99.75% or more of a human undamaged.

Why in the WORLD would anyone think that a human who is 99.75% intact would automatically be incapacitated?

Ok, but SEVEN shots you say. All right, one would expect that 7 shots would disrupt perhaps 1.75% of the person leaving him 98.25% intact. Why in the WORLD would anyone think that a human who is 98.25% intact would automatically be incapacitated?

Little holes, even several little holes, don't incapacitate humans unless they go through really important parts.
I disremember what was used to kill the bad boys...
Click to expand...
Shot placement.

The shooter who employed shot placement was shooting a revolver loaded with .38spl +P.
 
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The 9mm does its part if you do yours. How on earth have the SEALS and Green Berets, among others, been getting by with 9MM FMJ for over a generation now?

Two to the chest, one to the head, just like these forces used to shoot when they had the mighty .45ACP
 
this probably means nothing comin from a noob like myself... but I carry 9mm gold dots in my p2000sk b/c my wrist somehow puts the firearm back in to aiming position after I fire a shot.

What's strange is that this never happened before when I kept takin it to the range by itself. After I got a new p2000 .40 and played around with it exclusively.. the 9 somehow started naturally falling in to place

I own a .40 and a .45... but my wrist stops w/ the gun pointing in the sky... I guess my muscle memory still needs work. Until then I'll carry my 9 since I shoot all of them badly. Hopefully one day I'll be able to choose any one of them and feel just as comfortable.

so point being.. +1 w/ what they've been saying. choose what u shoot best. In my case, it's not for accuracy b/c that's not something I have anyway XD
 
Whew! Good thing he wasn't shot with a .380 !! If he had, he'd have been DRT before the second shot.....
 
Years ago, A number of FBI Agents got into a shootout with 2 naughty children. They were armed with 9's. When it was all over, several FBI were dead. I disremember what was used to kill the bad boys, but that convinced me that 9's were not really the ideal carry caliber. That is my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is not founded on a good read of the events.
-Consider one agent was effectively blind without his glasses.
-Two did not have their guns when the fight commenced becuase they had unholstered then crashed their cars.
-FBI shot placement was not that impressive.
-Bad guys had long guns and their shot placement was better.

You're talking about an anecdote, not data, and that anecdote is nowhere near being a scientific example. The fact of the matter is that handguns suck. The only reason I use one for defensive purposes is that a long arm would be impractical or socially akward in certain situations. Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

Observe the "venerable" .45 vs the 9mm and .40. You're splitting some mighty fine hairs. Sometimes I think that if people would spend time at the range practicing with any center fire caliber handgun comparable to the amount of time fretting or fighting over handgun calibers, the issue would become moot. Get a fighting mindset and skillset, and just about any tool will do.
 
From my understanding, it's not the damage that kills (unless involving the CNS) but the blood loss associated with that damage. Plenty have died from injuries that some might describe, mistakenly so, as a "flesh wound" while many have survived with severe damage to vital organs. If they can't staunch the bleeding that those little holes make (collapsed tunnels, more accurately), shock and death soon follows.

As for the intestines falling out from a bullet wound... a resection might be involved in addressing these wounds. Though certainly survivable, the result of such procedures can include unpleasantness as a colostomy, not to mention complications such as c-diff. Perforated bowels can spell big trouble when it comes to long-term care.
 
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If the story had been that he had been killed by one shot from 9mm, would you then think that the 9mm was some kind of unstoppable killer death ray? Seriously, if on one hand we question the 9mm being good enough because someone survived being shot 7 times with a 9mm, wouldn't it be equally valid to think of the 9mm as an extremely viable self defense round if another person was killed with a single shot? Yes? No?...Like the others said, shot placement, and a good loading are essential regardless of handgun caliber.

If we use the same logic expressed by some in this thread than Marshall and Sanow "One Shot Stop" percentages would have a lot of validity, and the 9mm would stop someone with only one shot over 90% of the time. I'm certainly not betting on that, just trying to make a point.
 
Two words: Shot Placement.

A .22 can be lethal if the shot lands in the right place and in most cases simply being shot is enough to stop most attackers in their tracks whether it was a lethal shot or not. I carry a 9mm S&W 3914 daily and usually always with JHP ammo, however on the rare occasions that I carry my Sig 232 instead I always have it loaded with FMJ because I know it won't jam with those rounds.
 
cases like this are flukes...

imagine telling the people up in Virginia Tech how 'inadequate' the 9mm is...

that guy, who was a total novice shooter, managed to KILL (not wound, but KILL) THIRTY TWO people with a glock 19. a high % of the people hit were fatalities.

the kid in this story is incredibly lucky...sure there are much more devastating rounds..but a 9mm or hell even a .22 can kill if placed well. 7 of any of them will probably result in death or severe near-death 95% of the time, unless they are all in the foot or hands or something bizarre like that.
 
I'm pretty sure if I was planning on attacking somebody at random and it wasn't a crime of passion and there was no anger or any other vengeful emotions involved and my only motive was to steal something or mug someone, I think all it would take is about one good stab to any place on my body or bullet, for me to rethink my decision and get the hell out of there. Most of the people you are going to encounter on the street that may attack you, only have the motive of taking something of yours, and all it takes is a good stab, or a good bullet wound to make the loss they're taking unacceptable, and not worth whatever they were trying to take in the first place. Now, if you were trying to kill my family or did anything worthy of me killing you, chances are that I may sustain multiple stabs or bullet wounds to accomplish that, but a shot to the head or heart, you're pretty much done whether its a .22 or a .50BMG. As I recall, my mother was watching oprah, not me, my mother, and there was a woman on there who had been stabbed 87 times with a kitchen knife and survived. People survive pretty horiffic things, I mean, imagine getting stabbed not once, but 87 times, hell grab a knife and make 87 downward stabbing motions and see how your damn arm feels after that! Anyway, point is, defend yourself with everything you've got, if all you've got is a .25acp or a friggin BB gun for that matter, make it work and defend your life. BTW, I'll impart a little word to the wise here, whenever defending yourself, whether its with a gun, stick, knife, whatever it is, GO FOR THE EYES!!!! If I'm a man who just got his eye shot out or gouged out, I'm a big old mushy teddy bear who needs someones help. There take it with ya, its free
 
How come so many people understand the concept of shot placement in SD, but fail to realize that the exact same thing plays into hunting?

There is a reason all shooting competitions have a universal integral element, shot placement.... because that is the most important thing.
 
Also, in addition to the 9mm, make sure you are never caught without a good blade. In some cases it is better to have a nice sharp pokey knife. Almost always, the scales are tipped in the attackers favor because only he know what he's gonna do, and any attacker worth his salt is going to use the element of surprise to his advantage. A lot of people shy away from keeping a round in the chamber and have their gun in a snap holster, what are you gonna do with your good, better than ever, wonderful, nice little handgun with the best self defense rounds in the whole wide world, when its snapped up and un-chambered and an attacker is right on top of you? You take out your little blade with lightning speed and give him a good poke, then you take out your better than ever wonderful handgun and see if he'd like to continue the shenannigans.
 
One of my collegues was involved in an off-duty shooting, in which he had to draw and fire rapidly with one hand. He hit the guy ten times below the chest with his 9mm. He didn't kill the assailant, but the assailant's attempts to rob him were pretty well foiled, and he'll never walk again. So there's that.

The way I've always looked at it, there are a million variables in a gun fight that can determine whether or not your shots kill your opponent, but if you walk away alive and intact and your opponent doesn't, that's good enough.
 
cdsdss said:
One of my collegues was involved in an off-duty shooting, in which he had to draw and fire rapidly with one hand. He hit the guy ten times below the chest with his 9mm. He didn't kill the assailant, but the assailant's attempts to rob him were pretty well foiled, and he'll never walk again. So there's that.

The way I've always looked at it, there are a million variables in a gun fight that can determine whether or not your shots kill your opponent, but if you walk away alive and intact and your opponent doesn't, that's good enough.
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+1
Pretty much... If you walk away :) and he goes away :( then your in good shape
 
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Years ago, A number of FBI Agents got into a shootout with 2 naughty children. They were armed with 9's. When it was all over, several FBI were dead. I disremember what was used to kill the bad boys, but that convinced me that 9's were not really the ideal carry caliber. That is my humble opinion.

The information is not really good here that is being put out. I don't have any direct information but one of our captains attended a class taught by the lead dective that was assign this case. So my info is kinda 2nd hand and it was many years after the shooting so facts can get mess up some. There was one for sure 9mm with the agents it was hit by a round early in the fight which took it out of the battle. I think it was agent mendoza (may be wrong on the name) that ended the fight with a shotgun. There was also revolvers used by the agents. It was this gun fight that got the FBI looking at another duty weapon at first the 10mm was tried which many agents couldn't handle it was from that round the .40 came about. It was more a matter of poor tactics and bad luck which cause that bad gun fight where the agents were lose. Theh 9mm will do the job if you do your part.

be safe
 
some did use 9MM pistols armed with the Winchester 115GR Silvertip standard velocity which did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do under the then protocol...problem was the X Factor...
It was this gun fight that gave us the current protocol of how far a bullet should penetrate and through what it should retain it's jacket...so much has improved since this shootout and most all of it has been good...
the 9MM will do its job if you do yours...
Bill
 
there are those who carry a 32
Click to expand...

Yep, own 3 as a matter of fact. Two Walthers and one NAA Guardian. They have their place in my collection. I agree with the posts on shot placement being the key and not some mythical handgun caliber that incapacitates after one shot.

I don't feel any more at a disadvantage with a .32 than I do with my 9mm or .44. Some activities are better suited to larger calibers (hunting...). Some activities where concealment is a concern can be addressed better by smaller. I am not arguing that today there are not larger calibers in smaller packages available. But, I generally don't trade just because something new comes out. A lot of my guns are well into their 3rd decade of ownership and I keep what I am familiar with and what has served me well.
 
Years ago, A number of FBI Agents got into a shootout with 2 naughty children. They were armed with 9's. When it was all over, several FBI were dead. I disremember what was used to kill the bad boys, but that convinced me that 9's were not really the ideal carry caliber. That is my humble opinion.
Click to expand...
Is this the '86 Miami shootout where the "2 naughty children" had a Mini-14? Come on, you think 9mm handguns were the problem here?

9 vs. 45 again :banghead:
 
+1 to most of this. Bullets are not that great for stopping, even from a rifle. I've seen a case where a guy took a few shots of 00 buck and was still up. You figure that's like 9 bullets hitting the same area at the same time with each shot.

Surviving shootings are a little luck, a little skill, and a lot of tactics and mindset. You could carry a slingshot with mini bolts and broadheads as your ammo and still win a gunfight. The tool used for the job has little to do with the outcome.

Even one of the "Son of Sam" victims was shot in the back of the head with a .44 Spl and survived. Ballistics, energy, etc. are majorly hyped-up.
 
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