change of mind from 9mm to .45acp

[Froggy]

I wouldn't be so hasty to switch calibers on the weight of a single anecdotal story, the details of which are quite unclear and especially one which could be greatly influenced by a vast number of variables.

Absolutely. To quote from another THR thread that relates:

"An officer can easily empty a full 17-round magazine before he or she observes any indication of incapacitation."

If you haven't yet seen the thread, it is worth a read:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265386

.

 

[PaladinX13]

Anyone here HUNT? How many of you have shot a Deer, Hog, Elk, etc..... and had to track it even with a Heart/Lung shot? I have...and when i cleaned it i found the very little of the heart remained. I used a 30.30 and the shot was at 20 yards. POINT IS......even with great shot placement, the BG can still advance.

Defensive shooting is different than hunting. In hunting, it's typically unethical to go for Central Nervous System shots- the spine or head- because of the ranges and unpredictable animal movement can lead to maimed animals. To minimize that risk, hunters are taught to aim for the vitals, which have superior odds of quick (if not instant) death without maiming. That means more work for the hunter, but more humane kills. Hunting is about humane kills and not instant stops.

A direct and destructive hit (deflecting off the skull is not destructive) to the CNS can drop game instantly even with the humble .22LR. For defensive shootings, you want the CNS. You might go for the vitals as a compromise similar to that of a hunter's- to make a lethal shot more probable- but if you want your assailant instantly STOPPED, it's the CNS or psychology. As you point out yourself, even a 30-30 can be insufficient to instantly stop even with a hit to the vitals... so how much more benefit would one be gaining going to 45 over 9 when either is compared to 30-30?

There might be a benefit, to be sure, but whatever it is I think it's been magnified to mythological proportions.

 

[Leedavisone]

I am going to get my CCW here in New Mexico, and my primary carry piece will be my 1905 vintage H&R .32. It will certainly do the job, and will give me some whopping good tales to tell if I ever have to use it. I have several 1911's, and 9mm's, but I am after aim quality, not shock value.

"Fortunately, I always keep my feathers numbered" -Foghorn Leghorn

 

[Old Dog]

Time warp alert ... flashback to 1991 ...

I come home from work ... (after packing my 9mm for eight and a half hours) ... take out the Kimber TLE II ... log on to my trusty computer ... and we're still debating 9mm vs. .45 ACP?

(No, as a matter of fact ... I have absolutely zero constructive comments to add to this thread, either)

 

[RTFM]

Good one Old Dog.

Sorry guys, looks like I have a faulty information set on PD's allowing their members to choose their own side arm.

 

[tostada]

It always seems a little suspicious to me when people keep saying, "Hey, whatever you're comfortable with." I don't think anybody should be all that comfortable with the stopping power of a handgun.

I think most shooting incidents would have gone better if the assailant had been treated as a zombie. You keep shooting the zombie. Empty the clip into the zombie, then throw your gun at the zombie, then run and hide.

 

[heypete]

It always seems a little suspicious to me when people keep saying, "Hey, whatever you're comfortable with." I don't think anybody should be all that comfortable with the stopping power of a handgun.

True. I don't think that's what people are talking about "being comfortable" about, rather it's what one can comfortably control.

Some shooters have difficulty controlling .357 Mag or .44 Mag. They may be able to handle 9mm much more proficiently, with greater accuracy, quicker follow-up shots, and less flinching.

I, for one, can shoot 9mm quite a bit more accurately while doing rapid-fire drills than .45 ACP or .40 S&W.

Thus, one should shoot a caliber which they are comfortable shooting. The difference in terminal ballistics between different handguns is relatively small, and one should shoot what they're comfortable in shooting, as the ability to place shots accurately will serve them far more than having a slightly more powerful cartridge.

As Old_Painless says, "Pistols are pistols, and rifles are rifles." I don't think anyone's suggesting that pistol cartridges are magical one-shot stoppers, but one carries a pistol when they're not expecting trouble...and a shoulder weapon when they are.

 

[Texfire]

How about a light saber?

Well what color? you see some are slightly bigger than others and therefore are better

Just make sure that it's at least 16" at the blade or you'll have to SBL that sucker.

Tex

 

[Chuhhuniban]

Shot placement is paramount to surviving an attack. Practice, practice, practice....

Best line I've found on this topic is the signature of a guy on the 10 mm Forum, it says just about all you need to know:

"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins..."

 

[Eyesac]

Sound like he's doing just fine to me...

While I'm a big fan of .45 (and will probably never own a 9mm), it sounds like he did just fine with a 9mm, getting 4 out of 4 shots to hit is a lot better than some cop shootings I've heard of. Sound's like he's doing just fine.

As far as 9mm vs .45... the best 9mm +p vs the best 45ACP +P and I don't think there's any argument which is better. A 9mm pistol and the same in .45 and I don't think there's any argument which one holds more. Pistols are compromises to begin with, pick one, who cares... Personally, I pick .40.

 

[Caimlas]

I'm not going to argue with your reasoning, because frankly there's no way to conclusively prove it one way or the other, as there is good evidence for both arguements, but I have to ask: were all 4 of those shots hits? If they weren't, then consider the high-capacity magazine his 9mm likely had as being a great advantage over the 7+1 he'll have in a 1911. Also, where on the body did the shots hit? That's a matter of importance.

And, even a .45 isn't a one-shot stopper. It can be, but then so can a .22LR. It's going to take a person a moment or two, most of the time, to realize that he's dead, and when they're charging at you with a large knife, it might take a moment longer.

 

[ARTiger]

I just went the other way from .45 ACP to 9mm. Cheaper ammo allows much more practice, the gun holds more ans I am faster back on target for follow up shots with the 9mm. My home defense 9mm is loaded with Winchester Ranger +p+ 127 grain SXT's. With the right loads, I never feel undergunned with the 9.

 

[thedpp]

Quality over quantity :banghead: