change of mind from 9mm to .45acp

[glassman]

My cousin is a policeman who was sent out on a 'disturbance' call. Long story short..he was attacked by a man weilding a machette. I'm told it took 4 shots from his 9mm to "insure his safety". He immediately went out and bought a 1911 as his primary.
Now the question...I've been looking for a ccw and the 9mm was my main interest. Having heard that story, my focus is now on the .45. I saw the S&W cs45 in the brochure and am thinking seriously about it. Anyone out there have experience/opinions on this one?

 

[doubleg]

Prepare to be flamed by 9mm loyalists. Other than that have fun with your newly discovered cartidge. The S&W cs45 sure is small, may I suggest a full sized pistol? Either way its nothing but blue sunny skys from here on.

 

[zachsm]

don't feel so confident in 45. if he took 4 shots from a 9mm there is a microscopic chance it would have made a difference with 4 shots of 45acp.

 

[Car Knocker]

Did your cousin mention shot placement? What ammo?

 

[waynedm]

hahaha. Gotta love these stories. "He shot him four times, once in the foot, once in the hand, once in the arm and the other in the leg and he didn't even fly 30 feet!" Poor marksman cops that have watched too many movies love to blame the caliber. This thread won't end well.

 

[bensdad]

When you hear about how some guy sustained multiple hits from a .45acp, what then? Thompson Contender in .338 RUM? Savage Stryker in .577Trex? How about a light saber?

 

[yongxingfreesty]

dont have a problem with 9mm. i will say gold speer dots look very mean.

 

[Redhat]

The .45 will in fact make a bigger hole however, a larger bullet will not work any better if you miss the vitals..it just has a slightly better chance of connecting with vitals due to larger size.

For me, I choose the largest caliber I can shoot quickly and accurately. The down side is, larger caliber handguns generally carry less ammo.

and...I like the .45 ACP 'cause it's an all American caliber

 

[Black Majik]

When you're shot, last thing your gonna think is "Dang, I'm sure glad I was hit with 9mm instead of .45".

 

[cslinger]

I think people (most people, gunnies included) have an pretty unrealistic expectation about what exactly a handgun shot to an assailant is likely to do, regardless of caliber.

Unless you hit the CNS they ain't going to stop instantly.
Chances are you won't even be able to tell whether you hit them or not until they go down or run away and you see the blood trail.
They ain't going to fly backwards or give any huge indication of being shot.

The fact is one shot stops are not all that likely without extremely good bullet placement and under extreme stress that may not be likely. The moral of the story keep squeezin until they stop wheezin or decide to run for the hills.

Calibers may have slight advantages and disadvantages over each other but those advantages and disadvantages go beyond "power". Shoot what you are confident in and can put lots of rounds on target fast. If you know you are going to be in a gunfight, bring a long gun and similarly armed friends, or better yet don't go.

Heck I am a .45 guy at heart but that isn't due to me having some kind of unrealistic expectation of it being the "best". Heck all things considered I probably feel most confident with .357 magnum but it is a tad LOOOUUUDD!!!!

 

[10-Ring]

I feel perfectly happy w/ either but if I were to need a firearm during the normal work day, I would go w/ the 45 acp

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you want good stopping power buy yourself a .357 Magnum and a lot of ammo. Practice a lot, do all the drills and learn how to hit what you aim at, then practice some more. I'm sure 2 well placed rounds in the chest from a .32, .380 or a .45 will stop almost anyone right quick.

Read this and remember it because this is what I've learned from those who know on this forum... Shot placement is paramount to surviving an attack. Practice, practice, practice....

 

[GRIZ22]

Shot placement is paramount to surviving an attack. Practice, practice, practice....

Well said. There is no magic bullet or magic caliber. The SAS seem to do well with 9mm FMJ but they usually do head shots only. There are cases where a BG took several 12 ga slugs and kept on coming. Nothing is 100%.

 

[David904]

I used to carry a .45 as my primary self defense gun. I have since gone to a 9mm. My reason for this change is that I have more control over my shot placement with the 9mm.

Simple as that.

The .45 is a fine round. And if you can reliably handle it, then it make for a great self defense round. I was carrying a full sized Colt Government Model and concealed it very nicely. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't shoot it very well. Personally, I think that it was a confidence/mental block issue so I intend to keep shooting it. However, I get nickel-sized groupings at 10+ yards with my Sig 226. The gun feels like it was made for my hands so I carry it as my primary now.

My point is this: The .45ACP is a very potent round. It'll put satisfyingly large holes in the badguy if you are ever unfortunate enough to have to test it out for yourself. However, a CNS hit from either a .45 or a 9mm will be an instant show-stopper. What caliber - or more importantly, what pistol are you the most competent with? The ability to place your shots where you want them to go is the most critical factor.

 

[jlh26oo]

I endorse the switch.

I prefer .45acp. Like how it handles (ymmv and platform dependent). Like the slightly deeper penetration, wider expansion, bigger heavier bullets with greater sectional density; and all this operating at lower pressures.

But 9mm works too. In smaller, lighter, higher cap packages. And cheaper to shoot.

Both are win-win. Or just split the difference and get a .40sw.

 

[chris in va]

I switched as well. My CZ 75 was my carry weapon until it started screwing up, which of course gave me incentive to re-think my carry caliber.

I now have a Sig 220. Lighter than the CZ to boot.

 

[Warbow]

.45 ACP is a good handgun cartridge, but so is 9mm. Getting good training and practicing frequently is much, much more important than which cartridge you choose.

This is a good, short read: One-Shot Drops, Surviving the Myth.

An excerpt:

In one case, the subject attacked the officer with a knife. The officer shot the individual four times in the chest; then, his weapon malfunctioned. The offender continued to walk toward the officer. After the officer cleared his weapon, he fired again and struck the subject in the chest. Only then did the offender drop the knife. This individual was hit five times with 230-grain, .45-caliber hollow-point ammunition and never fell to the ground. The offender later stated, “The wounds felt like bee stings.”

They also have two other actual shootings listed, one involving .40 S&W and the other 9mm -- in both cases the perpetrators were not immediately stopped.

Again, get good training and don't buy into the hype of "knockdown power" associated with certain handgun cartridges.

 

[R127]

If I was worried about not having enough stopping power I'd take a good hard look at a .357sig. Or 10mm. Why give up half your capacity for a different bullet that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the encounter anyway? What's he going to do when he needs to shoot through some sheet metal to hit the badguy? 9mm does better than .45 or .40 in that situation.

Your cousin did what is called a kneejerk reaction. I'm glad he's ok though and that the badguy got some justice.

 

[torpid]

When you hear about how some guy sustained multiple hits from a .45acp, what then? Thompson Contender in .338 RUM? Savage Stryker in .577Trex? How about a light saber?

Sure!

A light saber's good for me!

 

[Geno]

A well-placed 9mm will out perform any sized caliber placed poorly...period. Carry as big, and as powerful of a round, with as many rounds as you can carry. Practice, practice, practice.

9mm Luger / .38 Super
Use +P+, hollow points, 15 to 17 round magazines, fire center of mass.

.45 ACP or .45 GAP
Use +P+, hollow points, 8 to 11 rounds, fire center of mass.

 

[heypete]

I've shot 9mm and .45 ACP into milkjugs for penetration testing. No real difference in how far they penetrate.

The difference in expansion can be measured in very small fractions of inches.

There is hardly any practical difference between the two cartridges in real-world scenarios.

I like 9mm as it's cheaper, and easier to find in bulk packs. I had to sell my G19 a while back, but I own an XD-45 and love it, but I'm also looking at buying another G19.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Psh. Not enough power in the 45ACP.


Tell him to go 10mm. Glock 20 for work and a 29 for CCW.


That way he's covered vs men and mastadons.

 

[Waywatcher]

4 shots seems fine to me. He probably had 16+ on tap.

The situation ended right, so whats the problem?

 

[eng23ine]

Next step? a PLR 16, with 30 rounds of 5.56 on tap.

 

[legion3]

Hope you reload or can afford the switch...45acp is pricey to shoot

Who cares how many shots it took to "insure his safety"?

He walked away! As long as I walked away, it could take every round I was carrying!

I guess you are assuming that it would have taken 1 or 2 shots from a 45 ACP to "insure his safety"?

Well you might as well assume it would take the BG just looking at a 44 MAG and that would "insure his safety", heck you would only need to get 6 bullets and would never need to buy others with your 44MAG...pretty cost efficent.