Why not use the slide stop?

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Fine motor skills? Not an issue with the slide stop on my walther... Loading my shotty fast, now thats a challenge.

One good reason to chamber with a hand on the slide is because its similar to clearin drills. More crossover experience. YMMV
 
I don't use the slide stop on my sig, but my reason is that I'm a southpaw so although i had the mag release reversed the slide stop is a different story. so i just got used to pulling the slide back.
 
I think this "discussion" might be proper with a new shooter. However you teach him, that will be the right way.
I may be missing something here. When you leave home with your concealed weapon, I would think you load your semi with the slingshot method. Some will lock the slide, insert a mag and drop the slide. I do. No big deal.IPSC taught me the bad habit.
But, how about the reload. Assumimg something goes wrong with the world and you shoot your pistol dry. Now what method do you use?
Or you are in a competition and you shoot your gun dry. Same question.
 
at least 1 person (officer) died because

Just in general I find that kind of logic a bit lacking. At least one person has died for various reasons ranging from stuff like this, one person has died from owning a gun, one person has died from being outside while there's a rainstorm, one person has died from skydiving, you name it. Doesn't mean being outside in the rain and skydiving is a bad idea.

I know I forget safeties once in a while and could very well one day die from forgetting to take one off. Who knows? Doesn't mean using a safety is a bad idea. Ya dig? I just don't find that kind of reasoning useful.
 
Why don't those instructors teach all 3 methods and the +&- of each technique?
All the instructors that I mentioned demonstrated all three methods. They all recommended using the slide release, unless there was a good reason not to.

Personally, I see no pluses to the overhand or slingshot method, and a lot of minuses.

-C
 
I drop the slide with the slide stop lever...

If you really get rushed, you can drop the slide before the mag catch engages or even before the mag is all the way in. If you use your support hand to slingshot the slide, it will ensure the support hand has finished the first task of fully inserting the mag before it can do the second operation of sling shoting the slide.

I just use the lever, but I have practiced making sure the mag is all the way in and my support hand is off of it.
 
If you play a game where a number of pistols are left on the benches with the loaded mag beside the gun,
and all shooters have to run to pick whichever pistol they choose
AND FIRST SHOT WINS;
HOW WOULD YOU CHAMBER THE FIRST ROUND OF A GUN YOU WEREN"T FAMILIAR WITH?
 
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I personally never use the slidestop. The reason has nothing to do with motor skills or chambering ability, it has to do with simple economics and mechanical forces like stress, shear and strain. Releasing the slide via the slide stop introduces several forces to the corner of a material. Two corners constantly running over each other (such as in this case) are going to round and wear. The rate at which the corners wear is dependent on the materials used. I would LOVE to think that my slide is harder than my slidestop, but I get a feeling, any extra wear on the slidestop is bad.

You see, when you run dry in a mag, the slide stop pops up into the slide catch notch on the side of the slide, usually flat faced to flat faced, forces are distrubed evenly. In pulling back the slide to reload, there is no corner rubbing over corner action to wear either my slide stop or the corner on the slide. Ahh but I can hear you scream "But Whiskey, the slide stop rides the bottom edge of the slide when the slide is cycling but the mag is empty" but I will say, yes, yes it is, but the force of the mag spring is far less than that of the recoil spring.

I almost always overhand powerstroke for that reason. And it translates very well into clearing drills, and it ensures reliable feeding. The slide stop on my XD is ridiculously hard to manipulate and downright painful at times. I see very few cons with power stroking the slide. I dislike the slingshot method, but powerstroking is much more effective.
 
Certainly Remo, It may take tens of thousands of lockbacks to do, but if mine lasts tens of thousands longer because I didn't use it. It was worth the lack of effort on my part. :neener:

Use what ever method you chose, I just know that it is easier for me to grab the back of the slide and power stroke it, then it is to push down on the rather painful to push down on slide release.
 
Why don't those instructors teach all 3 methods and the +&- of each technique?

It only takes a few mags to go over each technique.

I think I can answer this. Instructors prefer to teach the methods they believe to be best. What constitutes "best" isn't always clear. A few believe in teaching what works best for the shooter, how to release the slide or what grip or stance to use, etc.

at least 1 person (officer) died because the fine motor skill to press down on the little button flummoxed him and rendered him a sitting duck.

Really? Are you so sure? I have seen a lot more screw up because of a lack of familiarity and lack of skill with their own weapons. Was it really a fine motor skill issue or was the officer simply not fully competent in the use of his/her gun?

Another way in which officers can be rendered a sitting duck is the half second or so of extra time lost between the difference of a slide stop release and a slingshot release. Years ago, we used to run a bunch of drills to figure out what sorts of methods seemed to work best, were fastest, easiest to use, what sorts of rigs worked better, concealment clothing, etc. etc. etc. While I know there are always superhuman speed demons for whom the normal curves don't apply (of which few general population cops would fall into this category), the slingshot method took longer, by about a half second or so over the slide stop method. The pinch slingshot tended to be a bit faster than the overhand slingshot method but also tended to have more failures of proper grip (necessary pinch force and friction to sufficiently pull the slide rearward) than the overhand method.

I will say this. I have never seen anybody smack themselves in the face using the slide release method. I have seen them do it with the pinch and overhand and I seem to recall on bloodied nose and one blackened eye (different events). You can smash your own safety glasses into your face and blacken an eye.

After our tests, I gave up on the pinch slingshot method. It simply caused too many problems because of not being able to get the grip needed to make it work very reliably. On a clean gun, I find the slide release method works very well with my carry guns, but starts to faulter especially after the gun gets a couple or 300 rounds through it, not much, but more so than an overhand slingshot method.

The slide stop on my XD is ridiculously hard to manipulate and downright painful at times.
Well then your gun (maybe the model in general?) would not be good for the slide stop release method.

The reason has nothing to do with motor skills or chambering ability, it has to do with simple economics and mechanical forces like stress, shear and strain. Releasing the slide via the slide stop introduces several forces to the corner of a material. Two corners constantly running over each other (such as in this case) are going to round and wear. The rate at which the corners wear is dependent on the materials used. I would LOVE to think that my slide is harder than my slidestop, but I get a feeling, any extra wear on the slidestop is bad.

While I don't doubt there are guns out there that with poor metal, but I have a 1911 with over 120,000 rounds through it that had been worked with extensively over 7 years with lots of mag change, slide release (primarily with the slide release lever) and first rond dry firing and the metal problem you mentioned hasn't caused any negative consequences. Maybe you drop the slide on your gun 50,000 times a year and if so, using the slide release might have some negative impact. Of course, few people shoot their guns more than a few thousand times at all, so I see the bit of wear as being a salient issue for most guns.

If you think about it, if the slide release method was truly better, but wore out the gun after 40K or or 30K cycles, when it came to self defense, would you not be highly skilled in its use, knowing that the price of parts and replacement is nothing compared to the price and replacement of you?
 
Remo223 said:
"This is all nonsense as far as I'm concerned. If you have the motor skills to hit the mag release button and insert a new mag, then you got plenty of motor skills to hit the slide release."

I agree completely! When my left hand inserts the fresh magazine, my left thumb is there, just waiting to swipe the slide stop lever down; and the left hand will be well positioned to resume the two-hand grip on the pistol.

If you practice this, you'll find it's much faster that other methods that also "work".

Did I mention that you should practice this maneuver?
 
Let me say first, I prefer the release method when firing. There are some pistols that require some extraordinary effort for a slide rack. If time is not a factor, I see nothing wrong with either method...
 
For me, the thumbs-forward hold on a 1911 puts the weak hand thumb over pretty close to the slide stop and seems natural as the pistol's coming back up after a reload...it's simply faster and more integrated as part of the process of reestablishing a firing grip.

The other thing to consider is one-handed shooting (i.e. an injured hand). The slide stop's relatively easy to engage with the left or right hand (not ideal, but doable). If your muscle memory is 100% tied up in slingshot, you're stepping further outside of the muscle memory norm to find and depress the slide stop.
 
I've always pulled back the slide to avoid:

The problem isn't "short stroking" which is where the gun attempts to cycle, but fails to pick up a new cartridge, but fails to stroke with sufficient power to get the round chambered as reliably
 
Don't assume that every gun you pick up will "slingshot". Some will not. Don't believe the ridiculous advice that you won't be able to manipulate the slide stop becase your fine motor control skills have disappeared. Practice with YOUR gun and find out what it will and will not do. Learn to count rounds and you won't have to reload an empty gun. Don't believe 3/4ths of the advice you see on Internet forums.
 
Don't assume that every gun you pick up will "slingshot". Some will not. Don't believe the ridiculous advice that you won't be able to manipulate the slide stop becase your fine motor control skills have disappeared. Practice with YOUR gun and find out what it will and will not do. Learn to count rounds and you won't have to reload an empty gun. Don't believe 3/4ths of the advice you see on Internet forums.
Ok, so which 1/4th of your comment is true?
 
I don't know of any auto pistols that won't return to battery by operating the slide.

I can, however, list many auto pistols that don't have a slide stop or have an internal one.
 
How about this:

Racking the slide vs. using the slide stop will work in situations where the slide locks back correctly, as well as situations where the slide might not have locked back (but it is still out of ammunition).
 
It's widely considered to be the proper way to release the slide and chamber a round by reaching over the top with you opposite hand pulling back on the slide release it.
I disagree heartily. I have to question why you think there is any sort of consensus on that.
 
Some mags release with a button on the side, some release with a lever under the trigger guard, some release with a lever on the heel of the grip. I don't practice activating all three releases because of a situation where I could pick up a random gun. I practice using the controls on MY pistol. If one day I am in a situation where I have to pick up a random pistol, shoot it until it is empty, find another mag for it, and then release the slide, then maybe the uniformity of the overhand method will be useful, in that bizarre and highly unlikely situation.

My local gunsmith, who has shot more than I probably ever will, told me that the "uniformity" and "fine motor skill" arguments didn't show up until Glock came out with a pistol that did not have a good enough slide release to be used by your thumb.

I'm a lefty, so I've had to slingshot/overhand most pistols, but now that I own and carry a pistol with ambidextrous controls, I prefer the slide release, and it has always worked 100%, so far.
 
If fine motor skills go out the window under stress then manipulating the safety and mag release are a problem too. There are many reasons to slingshot, but the "fine motor skill" argument is bunkum IMO.
 
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