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Why not use the slide stop?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Wonder9, Mar 25, 2011.

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  1. Wonder9

    Wonder9 Member

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    I've seen this countless times now. The latest was watching Rob Leatham give a quick IPSC lesson ...in it he pulls back the slide back and releases it opposed to pushing down the slide stop on a fresh magazine to charge the weapon. Why do this?
     
  2. Remo223

    Remo223 member

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    That's with glocks only, as far as I know.
     
  3. steven58

    steven58 Member

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    2 reasons:

    a) in a high stress situation the fine motor control necessary to slingshot the slide is less than that for hitting the smaller slide release.

    b) Slingshoting the slide gives you slightly more slide travel which equals more slide momentum giving you a better chance at not short stroking.
     
  4. michiganfan

    michiganfan Member

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    I have been taught that in stressful siuations that our fine motor skills are among the first to go, so your ability to use the slide stop release may greatly diminish during such times. Therefore the teaching that you should just pull the slide and let it go.
     
  5. michiganfan

    michiganfan Member

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    I should have just said what "Steve said"
     
  6. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    unless you're using the same handgun always and can guarantee you will be using the same model of handgun in all situations, using the bit thats in the same spot on all guns (the slide) is the way to go.
     
  7. DustyDawg48

    DustyDawg48 Member

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    I'll echo what the others have said about it being a rough motor skill and it is universal with all autos. Since the slide release is in different places on different autos the overhand or powerstroke method is universal and can be used no matter what model of pistol you own.
     
  8. yeti

    yeti Member

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    You don't have to hunt for a fairly small slide stop.
    It allows the pistol to chamber the round using the full length of its slide travel.
    All automatics will drop the slide when it is retracted with a full mag, cuts out having to figure out how to drop the slide on a pistol you are less than familiar with.
     
  9. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    It's not just Glocks. If you do it enough, any gun will eventually round off a slide stop notch/lever. It might take several thousand operations, but it can happen on any gun.
    As far as getting more slide travel/momentum, I have to disagree. You usually get more relative velocity by tripping the slide lever. You'll find this out on a gun that's hard to chamber the first round. Some of these gun manufacturers specifically state you should chamber the first round by dropping the slide release. When you slingshot, your dominant hand pushes the frame forward at release. So the slide has to "catch up" with the moving frame. When you drop the slide release, the frame jumps backwards.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  10. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    It is a handgun and if you only have one hand to use then the slide stop becomes the slide release. The sling-shot method is in vogue now. Everyone talks motor skills. The next thing they’ll be telling you is one can’t control their bowel movement and press the trigger at the same time.:what::rolleyes:
     
  11. Remo223

    Remo223 member

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    This is all nonsense as far as I'm concerned. If you have the motor skills to hit the mag release button and insert a new mag, then you got plenty of motor skills to hit the slide release.

    HOWEVER, if you do it right, you can reload WITHOUT hitting the slide release OR use the slingshot method.
     
  12. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Releasing the slide stop is slightly less reliable than overhand racking the slide.

    I've been in a few 500-1000 round competitions where failures of any kind were recorded and serious points penalties. A reliability under stress friendly comp thing.

    The first thing we noticed is that a reliable gun is more likely to malf after a speed reload than any other time. So overhand racking unded up being the ticket, but tac reloading when possible was even better.
     
  13. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    I teach and recommend using the slide release, because it is much faster and much more reliable under stress.

    The 'fine motor skills' argument in favor of cycling the slide does not hold up. For one thing, both pressing the slide release and manipulating the slide are very much fine motor skills. Manipulating the slide, however, is a much more complicated, involved series of movements than pressing a lever.

    The 'common manual of arms' theory does not hold up either. For example, if you run the slide on an M9 or a 3rd gen S&W, you are likely to set the slide-mounted safety. Some 1911-pattern guns will not drop the slide unless you press the slide lock. Besides, is having a perfectly common manual of arms for every pickup gun in the world, worth losing a full second or two on the reload?

    I won't go into the myth of conditional branching, or reliability issues here, except to say that they don't hold up either.

    The only reason to run the slide when reloading is if your carry gun does not have a slide latch, or if you are physically incapable of using it.

    -C
     
  14. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    B is mostly true. The problem isn't "short stroking" which is where the gun attempts to cycle, but fails to pick up a new cartridge, but fails to stroke with sufficient power to get the round chambered as reliably.

    A is absolutely without merit. Swiping the slide catch/release/lock/control with a finger or fingers does not require fine motor skill. You can even do it with the palm of your hand and so the whole fine motor skill issue goes out the window. Sure, it requires a whole lot less movement and uses far fewer muscles much less and doesn't seem to involve major muscle groups like the slingshot method, but that doesn't make it a highly precise fine motor skill endeavor.

    Yep, this is why nobody can pull a gun's trigger under stress. Once their fine motor skills start to fail, they can no longer operate the trigger and the gun simply becomes a rock. :rolleyes:

    Come on, folks! Like Chris said, it is just a lever and is hugely simple to use. That doesn't make it the best method to use, but the claim that it should not be used because of the crippling affects of fine motor skill loss under stress is just plain silly.
     
  15. Vonderek

    Vonderek Member

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    It seems like it would be a tad quicker to reload and get a gun back on target using the slide stop as the weakside hand only needs to perform one task.
     
  16. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Guess no need for people to waste money on extended slide stop. Either. .
     
  17. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    well, I must be doing it wrong
    but who woulda' thunk it ??
    (at least I am versatile)

    chamber empty, mag full, slingshot 1st round in
    shoot full mag, use slide release on next mag to load
    leave one live round in chamber, next loaded mag do neither (don't like chasing brass, much less live rounds), just use trigger

    PS
    cannot help but wonder what those cocked & locked guys do for CCW when obliged to draw quick
    having no fine motor skills and all that... just throw their gun at the BG I guess
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  18. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    It's widely considered to be the proper way to release the slide and chamber a round by reaching over the top with you opposite hand pulling back on the slide release it. It's not the only way, if you want to use the slide stop to release the slide then by all means do, you just won't catch me doing it.

    By pulling back on the slide and releasing it you are putting more tension on the slide spring and thus will have more force to sheer the top round off the magazine and ensure that the slide fully chambers the round.

    The truth is if you take any shooting class the instructor will more than likely teach you not to use the slide release to chamber the gun, it's common practice these days among shooting professionals to do it that way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  19. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Rob Leatham is using a technique that works for him. I am not saying he is wrong, but t should not be taken as dogma or a blanket statement, either. There is nothing at all wrong with using the slide stop, at least as an option. A handgun should, as much as possible, be able to be operated with one hand. You might not have both hands to operate that slide. No pistol in good working order is going to fail to chamber a round from slide lock. Some will do it by themselves if you slam your magazine home. And if your "fine motor skills" degrade to such a point that you can't use the slide stop, how are you going to operate safeties, pull triggers, remember to decock, etc.?
     
  20. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    I've heard that before and I have to agree with the people calling it bull. If you have the fine motor skills to undo whatever safety catch your holster might have, draw a gun, point, shoot, with any amount of accuracy, hit the mag release, insert a new mag and then SUDDENLY your fine motor skills fail ... I think other issues might be at play.

    Another reason I've heard is that the slingshot is universal to all semi -autos. Which sounds like a better reason, tbh. If you have to use a foreign gun the slingshot is guaranteed to work.

    But yeah, this motor skill thing seems ... less than believable to me.
     
  21. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    proof positive that you have been around a little too long
    the number of shooting professionals you meet grows exponentially
     
  22. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Not in my experience. In fact, none of the schools or instructors I have trained under in the past five years have recommended the overhand slide manipulation. Ernest Langdon, Todd Louis Green, and Bill Go (Blackwater Training/U.S.T.C) all recommended pressing the slide release.

    -C
     
  23. Pyro

    Pyro Member

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    I've never used a slide stop.
    Always give the thing a quick little pinch, grabbing slide from the top fingers pointed towards rear of weapon.
    Just more natural to me.
     
  24. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Why don't those instructors teach all 3 methods and the +&- of each technique?

    It only takes a few mags to go over each technique.

    The method you choose is situation dependant. I usually rack overhand, but I've used the ss lever plenty of times. Why limit yourself to one type of thought. Telling someone there is only one way to do something when there is 3 very plausable methods is serious training failure. Nothing works for everyone all the time.


    good class:
    http://store.magpul.com/product/DYN004/76
     
  25. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Two important points have just been made.
     
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