Let the ATF know how you feel!!

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Acera

Acera

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Got this in this months ATF bulletin. They are asking for how you feel about importation of a certain type of shotgun. We all know they are talking about the Saiga. Email them and let them know that it is indeed a sporting weapon, and should have no more restrictions placed on it.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-02.pdf



Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns
ATF recently completed a study of the criteria that the agency uses to determine whether shotguns are importable as sporting firearms under the Gun Control Act.
Since the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968, ATF has been responsible for determining whether firearms are “generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes” under section 925(d)(3). Only firearms that meet this “sporting purposes” test may be imported.
Although previous studies provided effective guidelines for determining the sporting purposes of rifles, ATF recognized that no similar studies had been completed to determine the sporting suitability of shotguns.
All interested persons may submit comments on the study. Comments may be submitted by e-mail to [email protected] or by fax to (202) 648-9601. Faxed comments may not exceed 5 pages. All comments must include name and mailing address. ATF encourages submission of comments no later than May 1, 2011.
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It only takes a minute and could make a difference, like a vote!!
 
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It is a legitimate sporting shotgun! The ATF does not care about anyone's opinion. The are all appointed people and do not care about anything but their own agenda. IMHO that agenda is slowly taking away our RTKBA. The importation of the aforementioned shotgun will make absolutely no difference in crime, terrorism or anything else they claim it will effect. The only people who will be effected by another perfectly useful firearm not being permitted is the collectors who will have to pay a premium for them. Anyone who questions the sporting/defensive purposes of a semiautomatic shotgun or rifle, IMHO is simply out to strip Americans of their God (AND government) Given to provide food and
protection for their family. I hope the NRA-ILA takes them to court if they try to pass such a regulation. We do not have a no-trade policy with the country of origin. Firearms should be no different than caviar, except they shouldn't be priced as luxury for the wealthy. If Russia and other former Warsaw Pact nations were permitted
to sell firearms to the "Free World" the economies of those nations would be significantly improved, as would our own due to capitalist competition in the market.
 
The ATF should look at what kind of sports Americans compete in these days. The Saiga is undoubtedly used in some of these competitions.
 
bump. i did it!

Saiga's and other similar shotguns are legitimate firearms for civilian use and sporting purposes under the GCA 1968 and the United States Constitution, which all Federal employees are sworn to uphold.

These shotguns serve as outstanding sources of sport at competitions and with small magazines for hunting in many areas and states where rifles are not allowed. These shotguns also serve as among the best for civilian home defense, as protected under many Court rulings, to include Heller v. District of Columbia and McDonald v. Chicago.

I urge the ATF to not create unneeded prohibitions against Saiga and other firearms of this nature.
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However, the newsletter requires "name and mailing address" for all comments.

I am VERY suspect of this requirement... is the ATF just compiling a list of folks who may have these items to make it easier to round them up if they become illegal??? Very suspect...

BTW, the study which is located here http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf
is absolute garbage with incredibly biast conclusions.

I urge everyone to write the ATF and Congress to put a stop to the likely ban of Saiga's for importation.
 
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I am VERY suspect of this requirement... is the ATF just compiling a list of folks who may have these items to make it easier to round them up if they become illegal??? Very suspect...
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They can look all they want at my house. I hope they look until they're blue in the face. Don't own one now and have never owned one in the past, but I'm happy to provide my opinion.
 
They need this information for comments because of bogus comments having been filed in the past.

Their reasoning is circular in their "study". Because these shotguns don't have "traditional" characteristics they won't classify them as having a sporting purpose. This regardless of the fact that they are used in the competitive sports built around combat or LE shooting. They even admit that the number of participants in these sports equal those in other shotgun clay sports, but because they aren't the traditional configuration they won't accept their sporting purpose.

Attack the flawed reasoning used for refusing to accept their sporting use.
 
What a load of crap. I don't really understand why ATF has the power to revise things like these as they please. If it wasn't a problem before why does it have to be addressed now? Their most shoddy assertion I think is the forward pistol grips being not sporting. They give no explanation for why these would be unacceptable, and that is just a taste of the bs they come up with. I don't really get why they need to be sporting anyway...what makes foreign guns so malignant to the ATF anyway?
 
My comment -
As a former federal department researcher I found the Study on Importability of Certain Shotguns to be badly flawed. The authors clearly started with the conclusion already in place that shotguns that didn't have "sporting characteristics" were not used for sporting purposes, even though the authors readily point out that there are competitive sports using these shotguns, and therefore did not meet the criteria for for importability. The real determination for whether something has the characteristics for an application are in whether it is used for the application and whether it is used in numbers greater than random outliers would account for. The authors point out that the shotguns under consideration are actually in use in numbers equal to other recognized shotgun competitive sports. They then exclude the shotguns under consideration not because their use in a competitive sport is insignificant but, through some reverse logic, that they don't meet the physical characteristics of shotguns in existence before these new competitive sports began. This fails the most fundamental requirements of any legitimate study to start by looking at the available information and drawing the conclusion from what is seen in the data instead of refusing to accept a statistically significant portion of the data because it does not support the desired conclusion.

The study actually shows that the shotguns under consideration are now used in new competitive sports that equal previously existing shotgun competitive sports for the number of participants. Since that is the case then the definition of what characteristics of a shotgun do or do not make it a sporting firearm would need to be revamped to include the characteristics of those shotguns identified as in use in these new competitive sports and the conclusion would logically be that shotguns in use in these sports would meet the definition of a sporting firearm and would be importable.
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Since the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968, ATF has been responsible for determining whether firearms are “generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes” under section 925(d)(3). Only firearms that meet this “sporting purposes” test may be imported.
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The Second Amendment says nothing about "sporting use"! And the Heller decision, interpreting it as an individual right, didn't say anything about "sporting use." The whole basis of the decision was suitability for personal and community self-protection.

The ATF should be taken to court over its administration of this provision. There's a good chance that GCA '68 section 925 would be declared unconstitutional! All defensive and military firearms, other than those falling under the purview of the NFA, should be freely importable.

However, don't write to the ATF over this. They can do nothing about the underlying law. Write to the NRA, the GOA, the Second Amendment Foundation, your Congresspeople, etc.
 
The thing about rules is: the government agency opens up the issue for comment and then they make their own darn decision anyways regardless of comment. Given who we have in working in that agency....well bye bye Saiga unless it gets some political attention. Doesn't hurt to comment though....
 
Question for the people that think that this for the ATF to gather information and come search your house, has that ever happened? Is there any president for the ATF to kick in doors and seach houses for something they think migth be there? I understand concern, so if anyone has any documented accounts of this happening people provide links, I'm interested to read them.
 
Am I to believe that HD guns can only be "Sporting" ???

HMMMM

Don't get suckered, we need continued pushing to RE-INSTATE the second amendment

as written, and violations be punishable. If you aren't in the NRA/ILA, join!

Don't hide behind our work to keep guns in your hands!
 
So nothing? Does anyone on here have proof that the ATF has busted down doors after a pulic poll like this? I'd really like to read them.
 
According to a friend who is often very astute regarding gun issues, the problem is caused by President Obama's new ATF Director.
Months ago the friend sold about ten Saiga 12s and has found no evidence that they are being imported.

With such an arrogant, anti-gun political appointee, could twenty million e-mails do any good?
 
Attacking the flawed reasoning of the ATF worked for High Powered Rocketry, why not this? By the way, it will take a long, costly court case to make them change their mind.
 
I sent in this Email:

At our gun club we have two sets of steel plate racks. There are 12 plates in each set of racks with "pull chains" to reset the plates.

My wife and I have great fun using our Saiga 12 shotgun, #6 shot and 12 round magazines (all 922R rules were followed when I "converted" it to the "evil" configuration) shooting the plates. Minimum time to downing all 12 is the goal and if you miss you lose as there is only one round per target. Its great fun and has improved both of our recoil control and general shooting skills.

While pump guns can be nearly as much fun, none hold 12 rounds; my wife is of small stature and has difficulty working a pump action shotgun.

Our club has steel plate matches but my wife and I are happy with our informal competitions.

Thank you for your considerations.
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Maybe we should ask the ATF what the sporting purpose is for their Glocks, 12 gauges, AR-15s, and MP-5s.

The whole notion that a "sporting purpose" is in any way a consideration for whether a certain type of weapon should be available to citizens of this country is a complete affront to the concept of liberty. It makes me sick to my stomach that this is what our nation has come to.

What ever happened to that revolutionary spirit that our founding fathers hoped would never die out? On April 19, 1775, an 800 man detachment of Royal Army and Marines descended on the town of Concord. They confiscated or destroyed any items they thought could be "military" in nature, including some wooden spoons, several barrels of flour, musket balls, and gunpowder. Before the sun set that day, 73 of those soldiers lay dead along the road to Boston, with another 174 wounded by Colonial musket balls and 53 missing. That is how our founding fathers dealt with threats of this nature. SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS.
 
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Short and to the point. "Myself and many others use our Saiga 12 shotguns for the shooting sports of 3gun and Multigun. A simple search of youtube for "Saiga 12 3 gun" turns up dozens of people using theirs for the same purpose. OBVIOUSLY it has a sporting purpose.

However, shouldn't the question be "Are these shotguns being imported for criminal activity?" If the answer is yes, then ban them. If they aren't being used for criminal activity, what does it matter what use they are being put to?"
 
Hu I was not aware the ATF had the authority to override the US Constatution at will. Does anyone else see the wrighting on the wall here? It is coming.
 
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