Carl N. Brown
Member
I shot one belonging to a friend of my cousin. It is on my "to buy" list right after the Mare's Laig (in other words, a range toy curiosity piece).
So what's the general consensus on the FN Five-seveN?
- Thread starter jrb_pro
- Start date
- Status
Ash
Member
I can get 45 ammo for $18 a box of 50. 5.7 isn't cheaper.
Neverwinter
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 1,049
How it shoots may be a very important concern. The handling characteristics play a role in a person's ability to place rounds sufficiently fast and accurately to incapacitate an attacker to where they no longer propose a threat.
Wrong.
FN's SS192/SS195 is capable of penetrating a Level II Kevlar vest. Furthermore, Elite Ammunition's 5.7x28mm ammo types are capable of penetrating any type of soft armor, and they're offered to civilians.
All of the papers you listed discuss ammunition that is either unavailable to civilians (SS190) or was discontinued completely about 20 years ago (SS90). Try to stay relevant.
See above. You're recycling misinformation.
See above. You're recycling misinformation.
5.7x28mm is no more expensive to shoot than .45 ACP, and both rounds are poor performers without a hit to a vital area.
Yes, there have been several shootings in the U.S. and there are dozens of shootings in Mexico with the Five-seveN every year. The shootings in Mexico are corroborated by news reports, photos, and videos of the crime scenes and victims (fatalities are the norm and it goes without saying that the results are very graphic, so I won't post them here).
Wrong. The 5.7x28mm was designed in response to NATO requests for a 9mm replacement; it would have already replaced the 9mm with NATO except the adoption process was blocked by Germany/HK and the 4.6x30mm.
Wrong again.
FN's SS192/SS195 is capable of penetrating a Level II Kevlar vest. Furthermore, Elite Ammunition's 5.7x28mm ammo types are capable of penetrating any type of soft armor, and they're offered to civilians.
5.7x28mm is also no more expensive to shoot than .45 ACP.
There are dozens upon dozens of such accounts. From police shootings, to Mexican drug cartel shootings, to the Fort Hood shooting, all indications are that the round performs every bit as well as any of the common pistol calibers.
Your comparison is disingenuous.
- The Five-seveN has the same exact grip width as the Glock 17 (1.2 inches). The Five-seveN's width is only barely 1.4 inches on the cocking serrations at the rear of the slide.
- The Five-seveN is longer than the Glock 17 because it has a longer barrel (4.8 inches) and longer sight radius.
- The Five-seveN is available with low profile fixed sights that reduce the height, making it identical to the Glock 17.
- The Five-seveN is much lighter than the Glock 17 when both guns are fully loaded (you compared empty weight vs empty weight, which is meaningless).
- The Five-seveN accepts extended 30-round magazines just like the Glock 17, except the Five-seveN magazines are much, much more compact and lightweight.
A Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs about the same as an empty Glock 17 pistol. The Five-seveN also has a higher flush-fit magazine capacity, shoots flatter, recoils less, and with EA's ammunition has the ability to penetrate any type of soft body armor.
In terms of wound ballistics, the two rounds are essentially identical. See also:
http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/5.7x28mm_Elite_Ammunition_ProtecTOR_II.wmv
Brassfetcher's recent testing (above) shows EA's Pro II perforating a 16-inch block of calibrated ballistic gelatin, and the bullet is visibly expanded on exit.
EA's 5.7x28mm loads have been independently chronographed at over 2,500 ft/s out of the Five-seveN pistol. Hint: that is hyper velocity.
Last edited:
Incorrect. The SS197 and SS195 has proven to be formidable choices for ammunition despite being the lowest powered 5.7 ammo you can buy. Many 250lb hogs and deer have been felled with the 197. EA offers the "real" 5.7 ammo allowing the FiveseveN platform to really shine.
Of course military and law enforcement can purchase SS190 which is the military grade AP round. Citizens can also buy SS190 but have to find an "unofficial source" (like gunbroker.com or a friend that has a stash). It is not legal for civilians to own or purchase SS190 despite the urban legends.
Expensive is relative. The FiveseveN is a high-tech pistol for the 21st century. I can definitely attest, you get what you pay for.
The FiveseveN will definitely penetrate body armor (Level IV) and the ammunition is available to do so from many, many sources. The cost for the ammunition is on par with premium defensive rounds in 9mm and .45 caliber.
This is absolutely false. I use the S4 round for my FiveseveN and it has more energy than 9mm and many .45 calibers. It travels at around 2600fps and over 400 ft-lbs of energy. It makes 4 inch wound channels and offers additional tissue disruption via hydrostatic shock.
Listen to this quote from a law enforcement journal that actual did some research on the platform:
An independent study was recently funded on the S4 round and conducted by Brassfetchers. This is what they had to say about the S4 round:
No offense but this made me laugh out loud... hahahaha
Brassfetchers thinks the S4 (and 195) is comparable or better than a .45 230gr fully expanded Hydra-Shok...
Your buddy needs to be using the SS197 "varmint" round. It fragments wildly once inside the target and turns prairie dogs to mush on the inside. If he is using the JHP (SS195) it will likely over-penetrate a tiny prairie dog. It will still kill it, but it won't "blow it up" like the SS197 (which are cheaper btw).
The SS197 has been used to fell 250lb hogs and deer (will your 9mm JHP do this?). It also is the primary round used in all the killings in Mexico. Do a search for "Mata Policia". Apparently the FiveseveN has quite a following with the gangs in Mexico due to its high-capacity and lethal effect on their adversaries. They also use the SS197 which is the "weakest" round made for the FsN - the wildly fragmenting "varmint" round.
The SS195 may be slightly less in kinetic energy than some of the higher-end 9mm rounds, but it does more damage on the tissue due to the delayed tumble effect. I would even venture to say that the SS197 fragmenting round would stop an assailant faster than 9mm HP due to the multiple wound channels created when the round grenades inside its victims.
I have seen some very gruesome photos via the Mexican press of people shot and killed with SS197... it's a bloody, bloody mess.
Now.... I use S4M which not only has the same tumbling properties as the SS195, but it is much hotter with higher kinetic energy than 9mm and most .45 calibers. So imagine how confident I am while carrying my FsN? Very..
S4M is no more expensive per round than premium .40 and .45 caliber self-defense loads (around a dollar each). Of course there is NOTHING wrong with carrying SS195 since Brassfetchers just stated that it is comparable to .45 230gr as a "man-stopper". Plus, SS195 is around 40 cents per round. This is what I use for range ammo.
Nushif
Member
Cool idea, for sure. Kinda like the idea of a "pistol variety" 5.56.
But man is it expensive. Both the gun and the ammo!
But man is it expensive. Both the gun and the ammo!
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
Do any of you have any links regarding FiveseveN shootings? I would like to read about them.
Ash
Member
I love posters who show up only for a single subject. But, I do have a few thoughts - I know I know, I should not speak as I am an unwashed who does not actually own one, only that I do have a brother-in-law with the first civilian pattern version.
There is no evidence NATO would be using the 5.7 except for the Germans. The US has certainly not made any inroads to issue the design or the round for its armed forces, you know, part of NATO - the bulk of NATO.
Defeating body armor is not important to civilians. How many shootings with the 5.7 (I note that these are virtually all murders with very few self-defensive situations) involved armored attackers? The need to shoot through a car door can be compelling, I suppose.
Nobody plinks with expensive self-defense ammo. Therefore, for plinking, it is expensive.
The grip may not be much wider than comparable pistols, but it is much, much deeper. The grip on the CZ-97 I once owned was not really any wider than my Tanfoglio, but it was deeper. The result, the pistol was too big for me.
Pardon me, though, as I think it is time to return to my cave and my primitive steel arms from a bygone era.
There is no evidence NATO would be using the 5.7 except for the Germans. The US has certainly not made any inroads to issue the design or the round for its armed forces, you know, part of NATO - the bulk of NATO.
Defeating body armor is not important to civilians. How many shootings with the 5.7 (I note that these are virtually all murders with very few self-defensive situations) involved armored attackers? The need to shoot through a car door can be compelling, I suppose.
Nobody plinks with expensive self-defense ammo. Therefore, for plinking, it is expensive.
The grip may not be much wider than comparable pistols, but it is much, much deeper. The grip on the CZ-97 I once owned was not really any wider than my Tanfoglio, but it was deeper. The result, the pistol was too big for me.
Pardon me, though, as I think it is time to return to my cave and my primitive steel arms from a bygone era.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
There was one case with a mass shooter that was shoot 4 times with a .45 and was able to get back up, kill the civilian that shot him and continue because he had body armor.
If you have some skill in the spanish language, search "Mata Policia" (cop killer) in major Mexican newspapers and you will find TONS of stories on FiveseveN killings. I've seen what the "varmint" SS197 round has done to hogs and deer, but even I was surprised to see some of the press photos of SS197 victims. Granted, some were headshots, but a lot were chest and torso with tons of blood thanks to the multiple wound channels created when the 40 gr. VMAX fragmenting round exploded in the victim's chest at 1850fps.
Here are some SS197 victims:
I do have press photos of FsN victims in Mexico but the pictures are kind of graphic. I will post them with permission from an admin.
That bullet hole sure is tiny on paper targets at the range isn't it... LOL
Then again, so are AR15's, M16's, etc., which shoot .223 caliber bullets. The FsN shoots .224. What is important is what happens when the bullet is on the inside of the target. That is were the "magic" happens.
However, there is NOTHING wrong with preferring a different caliber as long as it is sufficient to stop a threat.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
.223 Remington is actually .224 aswell.
Ash
Member
Glock, the 22lr was once the poacher's weapon of choice for killing deer. They are not that hearty.
"There was one case with a mass shooter that was shoot 4 times with a .45 and was able to get back up, kill the civilian that shot him and continue because he had body."
Right. So, just in case, in that one-in-a-billion-chance you run into that kind of guy, have at it.
7.62 Nagant killed many, too, with head shots at that. The Czar of Russia died in part from that round. Must be the best in the world given its record.
"There was one case with a mass shooter that was shoot 4 times with a .45 and was able to get back up, kill the civilian that shot him and continue because he had body."
Right. So, just in case, in that one-in-a-billion-chance you run into that kind of guy, have at it.
7.62 Nagant killed many, too, with head shots at that. The Czar of Russia died in part from that round. Must be the best in the world given its record.
I'm not going to call anybody names. And I hope the moderators don't lock this thread. I can take the punishment, it doesn't bother me.
I bought a Kel-Tec PMR-30 instead.
Okay that's not true but it's funny. I agree with others, it is a high priced gun with high priced ammo that would be less effective in a SD situation than most common defensive calibers. The only advantage would be round count. That said if ammo prices came down to about the same as other common calibers I may buy one for a fun gun, would never use it for anything other than a pinker due to the anemic caliber.
Mostly incorrect save for the comment about round count. To be honest with you, a recent study was published showing very little difference between common calibers and "stopping" the attacker. The comprehensive study showed that bullet placement trumps everything else by a wide margin. Considering that the FiveseveN is about the most accurate shooting pistol on the market right now, that alone should eliminate any questions about its applicability in self defense.
The premium self-defense ammunition is the same price as premium .40, .45, etc.
SS195, a very ample choice for self defense and considered a suitable replacement for .45 caliber, can be had for around 21 bucks per box of 50 at Cheaperthandirt right now.
It is indeed fun to shoot. I can confidently say one of the "funnest" pistols you will ever shoot. But is that such a surprise? The gun is state-of-the-art technology.
The muzzle blast alone is worth the price of admission. The report is like 10mm. People come up to you at the range and want to chat about it. It is kind of a "rock-star" in itself. Perhaps that is why it draws so much negative attention from those beholden to other calibers.
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
Where did any of us claim that its the best round? If that was the only case where someone actually died of a gunshot wound after all these years of guns being in exsistance, I would believe you. But thats not the case, don't post pointless things like that. 5.7 is just as effective as 9mm with the factory loadings and maybe even better with the EA loadings. Don't go by it being such a small round as how you think it will perform. After all, 5.56 has proven itself despite being a "Poodle shooter".
I've owned one but I got bored with it and sold it because it served no purpose in my collect that a .22LR pistol couldn't serve for a lot less money to own and shoot.
The FiveSeven is a neat gun and very accurate but I place it in the same category as the Desert Eagle, it's a novelty gun.
I will say however that I own a PS90 and I do miss having the FiveSeven as a companion gun to it. That said I own a PS90 because I am a huge Stargate SG1/Atlantis fan and if you are also as big a Stargate fan as me then I know you understand.
I don't mean to be confrontational, but I found the above statement a little hard to believe. Nobody that has owned and shot a FiveseveN would say a .22LR pistol could replace it, nobody...
- Status