Should I have paid?

No...you should not have paid. Your deal with the dealer was done when you removed your firearm from his store. While it was in poor taste to do the FTF sale in front of his store, it was still you that made the sale, not him. Sounds like he may have been just trying to pressure you into giving him a cut. Also sounds like he's been taking advantage of you all along. More than one good reason to find another place to do business.

...since it was his customer...

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Did he show you the contract?

I thought this was the High Road?!?

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No "higher" or "lower" than most other boards. Some are more strict, others are more lax.

I would have done the same thing

Your arrangement with the dealer was done when the gun was taken off of consignment. Therefore you owe nothing. As for the customer you sold it to, it's completely coincidental that you met him and you were able to make a deal. No wrong on your part. Enjoy whatever you've spent the cash on.

As for the other guns you sold, no way of knowing if the LGS ripped you off or not. I say let it go and move on.

I thought this was the High Road?!?

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It is. The measured, polite responses you've received after you insulted most posters in this thread demonstrates that nicely.

It's like someone selling their BMW from the parking lot of a BMW dealership.

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Depends on how it's done. If I set up shop in the BMW parking lot, hoping to score a buyer for my car, I would expect to be tolerated for a very short while by the dealership, until they understood my purpose. Then they would ask me to leave, as is their right. So I would drive off.

If, instead, I show up in the dealers parking lot thinking of trading-in my car, but begin to leave after deciding against it, and then another customer offers to buy it, that's different, IMHO.

Even in the first scenario, if I do find a buyer just as I'm driving off, I don't owe the dealer any money, unless we've come to an agreement that I do. Doesn't change that it was an unethical--and rude--thing for me to do.

But in the second scenario, there's no problem with ethics; heck, there isn't even rudeness.

Not just NO, but Hell no.

IF the customer was =leaving= the store, and purchased from you at your MINIMUM price, then it must be the dealer wanted more than that, eh? Odd on how your stuff ALWAYS sells at the minimum.

My business is mainly doing consignments. When I pay a customer for their sale, I included a copy of the SOLD sheet from where ever I have managed to sell the item. They =know= they aren't getting cheated.

I think YOU are. (IMHO) Personally, I wouldn't have trusted him after the FIRST time you caught him.

It is. The measured, polite responses you've received after you insulted most posters in this thread demonstrates that nicely.

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I did not insult anyone directly, only suggested a possibility and a moral equivalent. Was calling my example "a bad example" an insult? If I wanted to be thin skinned I could have said it hurt my feelings. I'll try to be more PC in the future. My sincere apologies.

I thought this was the High Road?!?
It is. The measured, polite responses you've received after you insulted most posters in this thread demonstrates that nicely.

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And many POLITE RESPONSES HE DID RECEIVE.....

At the end of the day you wouldn't have asked for opinions if you didn't think there was a possibility that you should have given the dealer something.

I don't think your behavior was egregious, but I would have acted differently. That said, my first reaction would have been to tell the dealer to "go scratch".

No.

Redlg155 you did right.....some people just spend too much time online....and end up being.......a%n%l

minimim asking price

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This sounds like a really strange arrangement you had. You expected to get more than your asking price? And as far as the gun that got traded away, basically he bought that gun from you; I don't see a problem.

No, you don't owe him a commission for the gun he didn't sell.

Redlg155 you did right.....some people just spend too much time online....and end up being.......a%n%l

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Thanks.

You owed him nothing. He did not broker the deal.

It would be a little different if you had camped out in the bed of your truck in front of his store advertising it; Then you would be using his store. But the way you have described the event, it was purely chance.

As for always getting bottom dollar, I, too, would be suspicious. But personally, I don't give a "low" when I consign a firearm. If someone wants it for less, they'll have to call me. But since I typically sell at or below average, I tend to be very firm.

I also only deal with two shops for consignment, and trust both completely.

Personally I would pay him his commission but I like my gun dealer and I wouldn't want to ruin all that over a few dollars.

my take on it.....


the SECOND you stated you wanted to take it off consignment, you dont owe the dealer a dime.

someone bought it off you right AFTER you took it off......so what?

i was unaware there was a statute of limitations stating you needed to wait X amount of time after you take it off before you can sell it again.


as for it being "his customers".....that is the most ignorant thing ive heard..

The OP owes nothing to the dealer. Once he walked out with the gun, it was his to sell to anyone he wanted.

The biggest problems with dealers who do consignments are 1) not having a consignment agreement with well-defined policies and fee schedule, and 2) not giving the customer an accounting of how much the gun sold for, the expenses involved with the sale (consignment fee, auction listing fees, etc), and how much they would be receiving.

Mr.Blue said:

It's not a bad example. How's this then? It's like someone selling their BMW from the parking lot of a BMW dealership.

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So, I'm guessing you're against private individuals selling their guns at gunshows without renting a table?

Afterall, anybody you sell your private gun to at a gunshow is a person brought there by the advertising of the show coordinator.

Redlg155 said:

If the dealer demanded a commision, then the dealer is technically breaking the law by participating in a gun sale without completing.
4473 and calling in a background check..correct?

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I would say this is the most correct answer of all. So, what the OP should have done was paid the dealer his consignment fee, got a receipt for it showing everything, and then forwarded the information to the ATF about the illegal transfer of the gun by the dealer.

Just curious... did the dealer do a form 4473 and NICS background check to return the unsold gun to the OP? By law they were required to.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-1999-02.pdf

On page 2.

Interesting. I've never taken back a gun on consignment, and didn't know about that requirement. Seems silly, but there it is.

Redlg155 said:

Yes, I did have complete the ATF forms and pay for the call before having my weapon returned to me. As I understand the law, it would be the same procedure for returning a gun from pawn.

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Yep, once it gets on his bound book, if you are going to get it back you need to do a 4473 to get it off his books. For my consignment customers, I do that for free.

But then, in 18 months of doing consignments ... I've only had to do it once. Don't give it to me in the first place if you don't want it sold!

I have a gun store. I have had guys meet in my store with one of them coming to look for a firearm to purchase and after two of them beginning to talk they decide to go outside for one to look at the other's firearm. That is an awkward situation and one that if not innitiated by me, feels inappropriate. When asked, I usually just suggest they could buy a future firearm from me.