Best long range rifle in the best long range caliber?

A couple of years back we had two guys backing-and-forthing over their long-range rigs. They were using 30" barrels for their '06s, with 230-grain VLD bullets. Sub-MOA at 1,200 and 1,300 yards. There was enough detail in their posts such that it sounded like they knew what they were talking about...

A 223 will go that far with the right bullets (77gr), but something in the 243-308 size class (243, 260, 7mm-08, 308) is more than enough for target and punching paper.

And if you're on the cheap, Savage is perfect.

I run a savage 260 ackley with 26" bbl 140 amax or 139 lapua and they get to 1000 no prob less drop and drift than 308

I guess if you want to have to take a new gun to a smith and have its flaws fixed then a 700 would be it.Or you could buy a Savage and be done without a trip to the smith. The new LRP in .260 remington is what I chose but if I did not reload it would have been a .308 in the same rifle.

For Tactical/Practical, F Class (Open) you cant beat 260Rem, 6.5-284, 6.5Creedmore ect and some like the 7mm's like 284Win, 7RemMag, 7WSM, 7SAUM ect and some even shoot the 6mm's like 6XC, 6Dasher, 6BRX, 6BR and even the 243Win(AI). The reason people have moved away from the big 30cals is even the 260Rem with the high BC bullets will give you around the same (or a little better) trajectory and winddrift then a 300WinMag (using the most popular longrange bullets), burning under half the powder and a whole lot less recoil (alot of the 7mm's will have even less drop and winddrift but again for more recoil).

As far as rifles go if you have the money you cant beat the Accuracy Internationals, Sako TRG's ect but for less you can get a good custom made rifle or even the Savage longrange factory rifles are pretty good.

I figure if you get one of the better Remington or Savage rifles in a reasonably suitable caliber like .308, by the time you have worn out the factory barrel, you will know better what to have done to make it a big time accuracy rifle.

It won't take as long as you think from reading the Internet. I saw a guy try to stretch a barrel from 4600 to 4700 rounds at 1000 yards. It didn't make it, spreading off the six foot backer before the day was out. You will get better barrel life on a field course with few shots spaced down a trail, but Long Range target shooting with 20 shot plus sighters in 30 minutes gets the gun hot. A good barrel will still keep hitting, but it is taking a lot of wear.

esheato said:

A 223 will go that far with the right bullets (77gr), but something in the 243-308 size class (243, 260, 7mm-08, 308) is more than enough for target and punching paper.

And if you're on the cheap, Savage is perfect.

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I don't know what you're smoking, but a 77gr bullet might *BARELY* shoot minute of mattress @ 1000yards....and thats if there's virtually NO wind.

for 1k and a .223, you're talking a MINIMUM of an 80gr hybrid/VLD type bullet (like a sierra 80SMK, or Berger 80.5fullbore, berger 82HPBT, etc)....and if you have any hope of them staying supersonic (at least at sea level), they're leaving the barrel @ 2900fps (which isn't possible *safely* with anything shy of 26"). I'll dig this post up mid summer and update with my results...i'll be in Colonie NY after Perry this year to shoot 1k, and I'm gonna give it a go with some Berger 90's in a 1:6.5twist kreiger in my service rifle for one of my strings. i'm not optimistic about it though.


why is it that everyone looks @ 1000yards as some sort of monster goal? If you wanna shoot 1k, and don't have a proper rifle, hang around at the local rifle clubs. gun folks (as a rule) LOVE to show off their toys, and share their knowledge...and knowledge is a good thing to have when you're shooting @ extended ranges. don't know a come up? guess wrong? could send a bullet into the dirt and waste ammo trying to find a trace....or worse, lose it right over a berm and into a populated area.


you want a cheap, easy, (probably) MOA or better 1000yard gun. it REALLY doesn't exist. if you want something that'll reliably make good hits @ 1k (assuming you're doing your part), is isn't gonna be "cheap", and the ammunition (should be reloads) is going to take some real care to get right (my LR .308 ammo (Sierra 2156, 155gr) for my palma gun leaves the barrel right @ 3000FPS, ES of 6, SD of 3. that was "acceptable" for 1k. SD's of 10+fps? ES's of 20+? you're gonna see some significant vertical stringing on target.


evaluate exactly what you want for a rifle...then build it. you're better off taking your time and doing it right than trying to cheap out and end up with someone that's only going to frustrate you.

Marine Sniper Carlos Hathcock made many long range shots with a Model 70 Winchester in 30-06; including a 700-yard head shot(if I remember correctly, read the book years ago). But the 300 Win Mag might be the ultimate 30 caliber long range cartridge. I would prefer 30 caliber or even the 338 Lapua vs. 50 cal.; As I'm not a fan of recoil.

...your favorite LR cartridge is a 300win mag (a barrel burner, you'll see usable accuracy for 1000-1200 rounds on average)....and you DONT like recoil? have you ever shot a 300win mag with full house loads?

6mmBR or 6mmDasher and learn how to read wind...

I'm far from being an expert but here are my views.

Action: Stiff and very solid. Depending upon the maker, they will come in 'short', 'standard' or 'long'. Short is stiffer, long can spring about. Shorter actions limit the overall length of you round, cutting both bullet length/weight and powder capacities. It is a no win situation that requires compromise.

Barrel: The longest you can stomach, longer will give greater velocities and at 1000 yards, you will need all you can get.

Bullets: The longest will have better ballistic coefficient and loose less velocity. The heavier will maintain momentum for the long time in flight. Too heavy of bullet and you can't get the needed velocities and end up getting a 'rainbow' trajectory.

Casings: Large case capacities to hold more powder to give the greatest velocities.


So you want big cases, holding long heavy bullets, to travel down a long barrel for the greatest velocities, mounted to a very stiff action. With this, you bed the action solidly into a solid stock (hard wood, plastic, metal or combination of all). Add to this what ever sighting system you desire.

Load your own ammunition as precisely and consistent as humanly possible. Practice, practice and more practice. A thousand yards is a long way.

I haven't said anything about calibers, action makes, barrel makes, twist, the reloading/case prep process, loading components.

My advice is to learn from the experts. Find out where they shoot, go to the competitions and shoots. They are listed in each months American Rifleman and American Hunter magazines. If you are not a member, now is the time.

I don't shoot 1000 yard shots, what kinda target do you guys use? Just wondering what kind of accuracy can you expect? 6 inches?

snakeman said:

Honestly I would try to tip the scales in my favor and remove some of the fudge factor or wind drift etc. and go for something like a 300 win mag, 300 wsm, 270 wsm, or 7mm rem mag.

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The .30cals are going to be owned by the 6.5mms which are beholden to the 7mms. The 7mm WSM is the best thing going in a short action. The reason is the bullet. Weight isn't important, ballisitic coefficient is, but weight can indirectly affect BC. With the .30's by the time you get to a bullet with a BC on par with the basic 6.5 and 7mm offerings, it is so heavy that you can't send it very fast within case capacity and recoil limitations and the 6.5s and 7s still have higher BC bullets available.

As long as the load velocities are fairly consistent, wind drift is the important consideration at long range, not drop. The two ways to minimize wind drift are higher velocity or higher BC. The 6.5 and 7mm cartridges walk all over the .30s in both categories.

Also, don't forget about the "lowly" .243 Win. With a fast twist barrel, it will shoot right with the .260 to 1000yds with even less recoil. The nice thing about the .243 is that brass in widely available and inexpensive and bullets are cheap. The rifle is a one-time expense. Doesn't matter if the rifle itself is relatively inexpensive if the thing costs a lot to shoot or you can't find ammo or components.

Really the only thing the .30s have going for them is ammo availability. You can get .308, .30-06 and .300WinMag ammo everywhere though most of it is hunting ammo.

If you look at competition results, for comps where the competitor has a choice in caliber, the top competitors certainly are not using anything in .30cal. The .260 has quite the following in tactical circles because the high BC bullets can be loaded to fit in an AI mag and are light enough to still have velocity potential. The super slick 7mm bullets are too long and too heavy to work well in the 7mm-08. Step up to the WSM and things change.

I don't shoot long range either, but MOA at 1000 yards is around 10 inches, so I think that would be really good shooting at 1000 yards

oldpapps said:

Bullets: The longest will have better ballistic coefficient and loose less velocity. The heavier will maintain momentum for the long time in flight. Too heavy of bullet and you can't get the needed velocities and end up getting a 'rainbow' trajectory.

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Heavy has nothing to do with it. Bullet weight is not needed to calculate either wind drift or bullet drop. Ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity are the only numbers needed. A "rainbow" trajectory isn't a problem by itself since drop is completely predictable. The problem lies in the wind because it can't be completely predicted and isn't consistent. You want to minimize wind effects and a high BC bullet is the easiest step toward that goal. More velocity is the second part of the equation and there is only so much you can do there. The 6.5 and 7mm bullets strike a nice balance of relatively light weight for more velocity while boasting the highest BCs available without stepping up to a cannon of a round (.338 .408 .510) that require special everything and cost a couple of $$ every time you pull the trigger.

41 said:

I don't shoot long range either, but MOA at 1000 yards is around 10 inches, so I think that would be really good shooting at 1000 yards

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That is really good shooting, but at higher levels of competition it won't get it done.

The ten ring of the F class target is one MOA, therefore 10" at 1000 yards.
Some of the top F-open guys have cleaned it.
The X ring is half MOA and I don't think anybody has shot 200 20X at least not at Long Range.

Highpower targets are twice as big. Can you shoot into 2 MOA with only a sling and iron sights? It can be done.

I think that the record is 200-18x @1k. The benchrest record @ 1k is remarkably small but I don't remember exactly what.

You will never get anything unanimous for an answer to this question, but you can't go wrong with any of the hotter 6mm's or the 6.5 or 7mm variants. All offer excellent bullet choices well capable of supersonic flight out to 1000 yards.

It would also be difficult to argue with a Palma shooter as they achieve amazing accuracy through the right selection of bullets (155 gr), the right powders and barrels.

Honestly I would try to tip the scales in my favor and remove some of the fudge factor or wind drift etc. and go for something like a 300 win mag, 300 wsm, 270 wsm, or 7mm rem mag.

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Actually I can load my .260 to be as capable as a 300 win or wsm at 1k yds and with a lot less recoil.

I don't know what you're smoking, but a 77gr bullet might *BARELY* shoot minute of mattress @ 1000yards....and thats if there's virtually NO wind.

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Nevermind....ain't worth the effort.

I'm no sniper but I would say for a .30 cal that is awful far away not that it can't be done but...you never know.

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Been done for over a century now. 30.06 has made countless kills on the battlefields out to and past 1000yds and the same for the .308. 1000 yards is a poke, but it's well within the "killing" range of most .30cal cartridges. Now I wouldn't suggest ANYONE shoot that far on live game animals because of wounding. Just too far to factor in animal movements right at trigger break. But for target, 1000 yards is, as I said, well within the 30.06 and .308 capabilities and has been for many years. There are better options such as the .260 because of the better ballistic coefficient of the bullets and on the other side of the spectrum is the .338lap for it's sheer power. Lots of options out there but you would be hard pressed to have a highly accurate firearm out to 1000 yards that would be suitable for hunting as well because of the sheer weight. Your typical long range target rifle is anywhere from 20 pounds to 45 pounds. Not something I would wish to carry while hunting.

"Best" is a dangerous and difficult word.
Look at what the winners are shooting.
Check out the 1000 yard benchrest records. Google is your friend. A quick check shows an older record with a 6mm wildcat at 6.125" inch 1000 yard group.
Recent 600 yard info - a 1.7" group at 600 yards with a 6mm BR.
1000 yards - how about 5.358" with a 6.5X284?
See http://www.6mmbr.com/1000ydpg01.html

What used to be long-range is now becoming medium range, particularly with competition shooters and snipers. 1000 yards used to be a long shot. With new cartridges and dedicated rifles like the Chey-Tac and .338 Lapua, the .416 Barrett, etc, they have really stretched the limits.

For conventional rifles in conventional cartridges, It would kind of depend. Am I mostly shooting out to 800 or so yards, with the OCCASIONAL 1000 yard shot? I would keep a .308 for that. For REGULAR 1000+ yard shots, honestly I would be using something with 'Magnum" in the title. A Remington 700 is a very available, customizable platform to work from, but I am in the process of building an AR-10, with a service-type upper in .308, and I'll build a heavy distance-shooting upper in .260 Remington, since I have also started handloading.

Thought about the 260 Remington...