.44 Special vs .45 ACP

Well, I run a 210 gr. SJHP at 985 FPS out of a 2.5" Bulldog pug, and that's not even a max load.

.44 Spl. runs at lower pressure than .45 ACP (15,500 PSI vs. 21,000 PSI), but has considerably more case capacity (35 grs. vs. 25 grs.). Once you actually put a bullet in, the .44 Spl. has about double the case capacity of a .45 ACP.

As for one being better than the other in real-world terminal performance? Not really. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

I have found 45 acp's are a lot easier to find and cheaper and I have not been able to find 44 spl in bulk. 44 mag's are just to much for my "terder" hand.

I think they are very similar in performance out of a short barreled gun . Just the platform is different the 44 being a revolver and the 45 being an auto usually. I have a 44 Charter and like it for hiking because of being able to fire rat shot.

the .44 is .002" smaller with a little less meplat,

Click to expand...

Why do you assume that the lower diameter means it has a smaller meplat. The meplat is just the flat part at the front of the bullet. Without needing to have a profile conducive to feeding into the chamber from a feed ramp, a .44spl may well have a wider meplat than the .45.
To go back to your example, using Buffalo Bore, you can have a .44spl full wadcutter where the whole darn diameter is "meplat."

Short barrel pistols in .44sp or .45acp to me is for carry and SD. My primary carry gun was a .44sp 2" with 5 shots. This is a great gun to slip in your rear pocket (jeans). I would load it with 210g sthp for mild temps and 240g jsp for the cold. The people you want to avoid wear heavy clothing even furs in the winter, the jsp would not eat up the excess material of clothing. I switched to a 3" .45acp because of the extra ammo capacity 7. It is as easy to carry as the snubby and I load 230g fmj bullets for it. We plan on relocating south so the .44sp will be a good trail gun with bird shot. In short barrels I doubt there is any difference in the stopping power with similar loads.
Jim

I have experimented with handloading both with the exact same charge of powder under the exact same weight bullet and the 5" .45 1911 gives significantly higher velocity than a 3" vented Bulldog revolver does.

In an apples to apples comparison with both fired in revolvers with the same length barrels, (a 1917 S&W .45 ACP and the .44 Special fired in a Ruger Redhawk), preformance with a 200 grain bullets over 6 grains of Unique, was virtually identical.

19-3Ben said:

Why do you assume that the lower diameter means it has a smaller meplat. The meplat is just the flat part at the front of the bullet. Without needing to have a profile conducive to feeding into the chamber from a feed ramp, a .44spl may well have a wider meplat than the .45.
To go back to your example, using Buffalo Bore, you can have a .44spl full wadcutter where the whole darn diameter is "meplat."

Click to expand...

Exactly.

Lots of good info on that question in this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=638054

With the two loads you listed, you're really picking the fly poop out of the pepper (so to speak) to tell any performance difference between them.

There are competing theories that would support either as "THE BEST" and until you do ballistic gel testing (or shoot a herd of goats and measure how long it takes for them to expire) you won't know for sure that ... well ... they're just about the same.

Based on these two loads, fired from guns of equal barrel length, capacity, and weight, there would be no compelling reason to choose one over the other.

YOU BET DIAMETER COUNTS, IN SPADES !!!
The 44SPL is truly a 43 caliber round and the 45ACP is indeed an actual 45 caliber round. And that is a hellofalot more than .002".

Wil, can you expand a bit on your feelings on this? Beside strictly numbers (0.02" or 10% fontal area, or whatever), what exactly is the "hellofalot" difference in terminal effect?

Better sectional density for the .44 Spc? Better momentum for the .45? How do you feel one is superior -- and how would you characterize the differences in effect on a living body? (Beside allowing you to be 0.01" off your point of aim and still hitting a vital structure?)

While I will not argue on this I will note that your math is wrong.

.45 -.43 = .02 not .002

Right. Edited.

6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

Click to expand...

Precisely! There are a "hellofalot" better things to worry about than the difference between these two.

YOU BET DIAMETER COUNTS, IN SPADES !!!
The 44SPL is truly a 43 caliber round and the 45ACP is indeed an actual 45 caliber round. And that is a hellofalot more than .002".

Click to expand...

The .0225" diameter difference between a .44 (0.429") and .45 ACP (0.4515") bullet is slightly more than the thickness of a matchbook cover (~0.015"). If you think that really counts for anything in this regard, I urge to to do some research on handgun wounding ballistics. Wounds by common service cartridges (9x19mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .38 Spl., etc) tend to be indistinguishable from one another in the OR or morgue. Move down (.22, .25) or up (10mm, .41 mag, .44 Mag) significantly and the differences can become apparent. But I promise you, no person hit by or doctor examining the wounds created by a .44 Spl. and a .45 ACP is going to be able to tell which is which.

In a modern .44 Spl. N frame, like my Lew Horton 24 3 incher, the .44 special becomes quite a good round. But in a N frame like my (ok I'm bragging) 625 3 inch .45 ACP, you can use .45 SUPERS!

Both rounds are mighty good and as others have said, there really isn't all that much difference. I guess it all depends on if you reload (the .44 then becomes more versatile.)

Deaf

When a person is shot by a big bore cartridge how is that person supposed to tell the difference? Same goes for animals shot with big bores.

They can tell the difference? I can see this now. " I'm not going to fall over or die from this. It's just a .44 Special!" "Hey, it tickles!" Yeah,right.

"IT"S A .45!!!!!! GOTTA GO DIE AS OF YESTERDAY!!" Ker-splaaat! Really? Puuulease!!

I've got both .45 ACP pistols and .44 Special revolvers and feel more than adequately protected by either.

You can get much higher velocity from the .44 Special. It can be loaded to .44 magnum levels if you're using a modern revolver (N frame), and I don't think anyone is going to argue that a .45 ACP has anywhere near the terminal ballistics of a .44 magnum.

Remember, the .44 magnum was developed by Elmer Keith using .44 special pistols and brass. The reason the .44 magnum cartridge is longer is so you cannot load a .44 magnum in an older single action .44 Special that is not rated for higher pressures.

I have loaded .44 Specials for my N frame that are 19 grains of H110 with a 240 grain bullet - and that is exactly the load I also use in my .44 magnum.

I have .45 ACP, .41 magnum, .44 Special, and .44 magnum - I wouldn't want to get in front of any of them - no matter what the diameter differences may be.

True, but in real world shootings even 44 mags have not proven to be much, if any more effective than the best loads in 44 Special, 45 ACP, 40 S&W or even 9mm. The added speed might make for a more effective hunting round for big game at longer ranges, but does not seem to make much difference in humans at typical SD ranges.

You can get much higher velocity from the .44 Special. It can be loaded to .44 magnum levels if you're using a modern revolver (N frame), and I don't think anyone is going to argue that a .45 ACP has anywhere near the terminal ballistics of a .44 magnum.

Click to expand...

Personally, I prefer the idea of the .44spl better in an L Frame gun like the 696. Its plenty of gun for an actually .44spl and much handier for CCW. If you are trying to push .44mag perfomance out of a .44spl case in an N Frame gun, why not just shoot the .44mag? If using factory ammo, .44mag can often be found cheaper than .44spl, anyway.

As far as the "terminal ballistics" of the .44mag go, on paper they do indeed surpass the .44spl, .45acp or just about any other common SD round. The problem is, IMO, that there is more to being an effective SD round that just terminal numbers. I personally think the .44mag is "too much" for SD (too much recoil, too much time between shots, too much penetration, too much muzzle blast/flash) and I would take a .45acp (or for that matter, a 9mm) over a .44mag for SD every time.

If you are trying to push .44mag perfomance out of a .44spl case in an N Frame gun, why not just shoot the .44mag?

Click to expand...

Because oftentimes the .44Spl is plenty, not to mention that 24's are lighter and better looking than 29's and have better sights.

Besides, a 250gr at 1200fps is not .44Mag performance. It's the upper end of the .44Spl's performance. A 240gr at 1450fps is .44Mag performance. A 355gr at 1200fps is. Why the need to pigeon-hole a cartridge?



Why load the .45Colt heavy when you can just shoot the .44Mag? Why monkey around with the .38-40 when so many other cartridges do the same thing with less effort? Well, because we want to.

jmr40 said:

True, but in real world shootings even 44 mags have not proven to be much, if any more effective than the best loads in 44 Special, 45 ACP, 40 S&W or even 9mm. The added speed might make for a more effective hunting round for big game at longer ranges, but does not seem to make much difference in humans at typical SD ranges.

Click to expand...

Exactly right.

Because oftentimes the .44Spl is plenty,

Click to expand...

Well, I would agree, but I wasn't the one suggesting that the .44spl be pushed to .44mag levels in an SD weapon, I was the one questioning the reasoning of doing so.

not to mention that 24's are lighter and better looking than 29's and have better sights.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert on these two guns, and I have neither the guns or the stats to compare, but are you saying the 6-shot, N Frame S&W 624 weighs less than the 5-shot, L Frame S&W 696? This seems counter-intuative. Also, don't both guns come with the standard S&W red-ramp front, adjustable rear sights? Or am I just totally confused?

but in real world shootings even 44 mags have not proven to be much, if any more effective than the best loads in 44 Special, 45 ACP, 40 S&W or even 9mm. The added speed might make for a more effective hunting round for big game at longer ranges, but does not seem to make much difference in humans at typical SD ranges.

Click to expand...

For some reason I'm reminded of an interview with John Cleese when he was asked to describe his old friend Graham Chapman, in one word.

Cleese: "Dead."
Interviewer, laughing: "Ok. Ok. In two words then."
Cleese: "Very dead."
Interviewer, laughing harder: "All right then. Describe him in FOUR words."
Cleese: "Not at all well."



Some is good. Some more might be a bit better. A whole lot more? Not any better and quite possibly worse.