Camping while hunting, Are Tents Still Safe?

Are Tents Safe in Bear Country?

  • Yes, bears are afraid of people

    Votes: 53 65.4%

  • No, bears are no longer afraid of man

    Votes: 28 34.6%
  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .
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So you are proposing that overall bear behavior (blacks) is becoming more hostile toward humans?

I tend to agree in a general sense. I just don't know the solution. I guess this means that I always will have a gun with me in bear woods. I agree with your preventative measures. I just don't think they are practical to implement for most people as bears are very common in camp grounds even in National Parks.
 
22-rimfire said:
So you are proposing that overall bear behavior (blacks) is becoming more hostile toward humans?

I tend to agree in a general sense. I just don't know the solution. I guess this means that I always will have a gun with me in bear woods. I agree with your preventative measures. I just don't think they are practical to implement for most people as bears are very common in camp grounds even in National Parks.
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National parks are probably the most problematic places for bear encounters due to acclimation to people, no hunting and people feeding them even when they are not supposed to. However, you can still practice bear safe techniques in these place and are in fact encouraged to do so.

However, given the choice, it is a hard sided trailer or RV way before a tent. Many of my friends here in Idaho feel the same way at this point. That has to be the first and best choice when you camp in bear country anymore. Obviously, that is not an option when out in the boonies on hiking trails. In that case, it's best to have enough folks in the party to serve as a deterrent as well as electric fences and some sort of warning system should the bear come close to camp. Pepper spray and firearms complement each other.
 
I still vote for a good dog, if one thinks of human sd in a crowded public place is hazardous just imagine the dangers involved with a large wild animal in the middle of a camp full of humans in which half of them are armed in the dark not to mention the victim possibly wrapped up in a tent or sleeping bag.
As unpleasant as it may seem the best answer during a mauling might be making contact with the bear and then pulling the trigger. I don't have a safe answer to the one being mauled trying to shoot the bear off them if they are the armed one and others are in camp.
I don't dwell on being jumped by a bear in my sleep but when I do think about it it is not a happy thing.
 
I think the increase in black bear populations is and will continue to be an increasing safety issue with humans in the Lower 48. Camping with a hard surfaced trailer/RV is rather limiting for the masses. Wish I owned one. Tents are fairly inexpensive. Maybe the days of toting a 22 handgun in a bear woods may be over unless it is for small game hunting and plinking?

But then, we face life threatening danger in some form every day of our lives. The odds are still pretty low that you will have a dangerous black bear encounter. But if you go into woods that you know has a good population of bear, I think I would leave the 22 at home.
 
22-rimfire said:
I think the increase in black bear populations is and will continue to be an increasing safety issue with humans in the Lower 48. Camping with a hard surfaced trailer/RV is rather limiting for the masses. Wish I owned one. Tents are fairly inexpensive. Maybe the days of toting a 22 handgun in a bear woods may be over unless it is for small game hunting and plinking?

But then, we face life threatening danger in some form every day of our lives. The odds are still pretty low that you will have a dangerous black bear encounter. But if you go into woods that you know has a good population of bear, I think I would leave the 22 at home.
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That really is a big part of the equation. The growing population of black bears is even encroaching upon urban areas as folks in Ohio and even in New Jersey can testify.

Black bear populations are growing throughout the nation. Some states have responded by expanding hunting. Florida removed black bears from its endangered species list in June because their numbers have grown to more than 3,000.
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http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/black_bear_encounters_likely_t.html
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Bears have never been afraid of people, so the dichotomy is overly simplified and unrealistic. Bears tend to avoid trouble, but that does not equate with being afraid of people. The notion that the animal kingdom recognizes humans as the scariest animal on earth is a feel good notion we tell ourselves to make us feel safe from the scary animals of the forest and dale.

The problem is that the humans fail to be wary of the animals, not the other way around. If you are going to keep food items in your camp, then you should not be surprised when a bear comes into your camp for dinner.
http://www.ktvq.com/news/more-details-of-bob-marshall-bear-attack-released/

Are tents no longer safe? Only in the sense that between the 1800s and 2013, tents have generally gone from 8-16 lb fairly heavy canvas to super thin and lightweight polymers and heavy wooden and steel tent supports to lightweight aluminum poles, metal spring bands, and polymer struts for supports.

The bears in the woods haven't changed, but we put more people into the woods every year, people who haven't a clue as to what they are doing. Heck, in the last few years there have even been attacks in areas where people were WARNED about aggressive bear(s) in the area and they blew off the warnings and proceeded into the areas anyway, either alone, unarmed, or underarmed. You can't fix stupid. The Bob Marshall incident is a clear example.
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Even ducks and geese know when they are being hunted or not.

I find it a little hard to believe that grizzlys haven't noticed that they are not being shot anymore.
 
jmr40 said:
I you are concerned about a bear breaking into your tent, stay home. If they want in they can get into a hard sided camper, car or home too. Just might take a little longer.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bear...AHG_oHIDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=533
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Stay home!!, not an option for me. Just looking at the reality of the growing bear population and apparent change in behavior from a few decades ago. Sorry, lots of folks rightly understand it is a real issue.

Beware of Predatory Male American Black Bears: Attack Rates Are Rising With Human Population Growth

ScienceDaily (May 11, 2011) — Fatal encounters with black bears have been exceedingly rare during the last century, but appear to be mainly the result of predatory male bears targeting humans in their wilderness home ranges, according to a new study led by the world's leading expert on bear attacks.
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110511074807.htm

Since the OP listed one more predatory black bear attack, I believe the question is not only timely but sensible to consider.
 
ZeroJunk said:
Even ducks and geese know when they are being hunted or not.

I find it a little hard to believe that grizzlys haven't noticed that they are not being shot anymore.
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+1, take a look at the bear management strategies inside the Anchorage AK city limits for instance. They were not allowed to hunt up until recently in the Chugach state park abutting the city.

"Chugach State Park is a bear factory. It pumps out bears every year," said Rick Sinnott, the area biologist for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
When those bears are hungry, they come into the city to feed on salmon in its many creeks and streams, and Sinnott said that is not likely to change.
"They are going to be cheek to jowl with us forever," he said.
Sinnott said efforts are being made to expand the hunting of bears in Chugach. The state park was off limits to hunting grizzlies for 30 years. Last year, three permits were issued but hunters were unsuccessful.
Killing all the bears is not a consideration, Sinnott said.
"It is a state park. People that use the state park, they want to see bears there," he said.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405081,00.html#ixzz27cVNNKuy

A quick look at the proximity of Anchorage to an essentially no hunting zone explains much of the increased bear attacks in Anchorage. It was not at all an issue growing up at the top of O'Malley Road back in the 1960's for us. The change in bear behavior comes from "The state park was off limits to hunting grizzlies for 30 years." Not sure why folks can't put the proximity of the bears and the change in our behavior as to why Anchorage is now a fairly dangerous urban setting. We created the mess ourself.
 
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Chugach State Park surrounds the Anchorage area and the Fish and Game folks in Anchorage preach tolerance of bears. Too bad, they don't teach that to the bears!!
 

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He's camping up in "The Bob" without a gun? Thats his first mistake! Lucky it was a blackie, if it was a grizzly, he'd be another statistic! My wife's cousin lives up in that part of the country, he said he never leaves the house without his .416 on his shoulder, seen too many "friendly" bears get too close.
 
Stay home!!, not an option for me. Just looking at the reality of the growing bear population and apparent change in behavior from a few decades ago. Sorry, lots of folks rightly understand it is a real issue.
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I fully understand that it is a real issue. Just pointing out that having a hard sided camper or even a car is no a guarantee to keep a bear out. I live, hike and camp in areas were there have been several bear attacks, and at least 3 deaths in the last 8-10 years or so.

I hunt, hike and camp in a tent and sleep well at night because I know how to do it and am prepared for any worst case situation. I've had many encounters with black bear at close range, includng bears with cubs and have never felt threatened.

I don't worry about it or sensationalize the issue. If someone is not prepared to go into bear country and do the things necessary to be safe then don't go.
 
jmr40 said:
I fully understand that it is a real issue. Just pointing out that having a hard sided camper or even a car is no a guarantee to keep a bear out. I live, hike and camp in areas were there have been several bear attacks, and at least 3 deaths in the last 8-10 years or so.

I hunt, hike and camp in a tent and sleep well at night because I know how to do it and am prepared for any worst case situation. I've had many encounters with black bear at close range, includng bears with cubs and have never felt threatened.

I don't worry about it or sensationalize the issue. If someone is not prepared to go into bear country and do the things necessary to be safe then don't go.
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No arguments there my friend. We camp in the St Joe River area in Idaho and in the Cabinet Yaak area as well. Fortunately, no encounters to date, but that is right in the thick of bear country.

Yes, no illusions about campers or cars being impervious to these beast.

Really, I started this thread to speak against those that do go camping in tents in bear country unprepared. Sadly, simply having a single canister of bear spray is NOT going prepared. You MUST have a gun as well. Just reporting the facts, not making anything sensational about the straight truth.

Once again, I can't disagree at all, but tents are no longer part of my package.
 
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Sometimes tents are the only option in bear country.

Try to get a "hard sided" camper flown into the north slope of Alaska for a caribou hunt.
 
climbnjump said:
Sometimes tents are the only option in bear country.

Try to get a "hard sided" camper flown into the north slope of Alaska for a caribou hunt.
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True enough. When I was a kid growing up in Alaska, we camped in tents in the Kenai, around Anchorage, Fairbanks and out on the Nome tundra. In all those years we only had one bear encounter in Fairbanks with a black bear.

Fortunately, my dad was able to stand his ground, shout and shot his .410 shotgun and the bear went away. He did take several of the other parties rabbits from that days hunt with him.

I also know two people personally who have been attacked by bears, one resulting in very severe injuries. With human habituation of bears and a lack of understanding of what can happen, folks run around like the OP story unprepared.
 
I also know two people personally who have been attacked by bears, one resulting in very severe injuries. With human habituation of bears and a lack of understanding of what can happen, folks run around like the OP story unprepared.
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And sometimes it's just random. A fellow I climbed with years ago in Alaska was mauled by a bear while walking his dog on a bike path near Eagle River, just north of Anchorage. A bear jumped onto the path, took one swipe at my friend's head, then ran off.
 
Tents are completely safe and bears are now afraid of man so you're all good. Watch out for the kidney boring moles though! get you every time
 
I have been way too close to a grizzly, but was able to ease away from him. Two of my hunting partners have had close encounters with them over the years. We have had black bear cubs sniffing around the tent at night, sound like hogs. We chased them out of camp several times. We had one guy chase a black bear cub out of the cook tent one night flogging it with a towel. Don't know where the sow was. So far, no attacks. But, one hunter I don't know got beaten up pretty bad close to where we camp by a grizzly. A friend of mine shot him four times in the side with a 44 Mag trying to get him off the man. They trailed him about seven miles in the snow and never found him.

So, I don't see where you can ever consider it "safe". Compared to what.

And, if one comes in on you I'm not sure what prepared is either. I suspect you are not as prepared as you think you are.

But, there are a lot of ways to get killed in this world. It doesn't keep us from driving, or flying, or going to movies.

It is certainly not going to keep me from camping.
 
I back country camped for over 30 years, everywhere from the swamps of GA to the tundra of AK, and I've never been bothered by a bear. I consider myself lucky when I see a bear! Despite one or two highly publisized intances of a bear taking a hiker out of his tent, I have never felt endangered or threatened in my little backpacking tent. You just need to follow proper backcountry hygene (no food in the tent, have your food prep area away from the tent, hang your food or use a bear container).
 
Actually, there are several safe practices that dramatically lower risk. Safety in numbers, safety in high visibility areas, safety with bear spray, safety with firearms, safety with camp hygiene just to name a few.

Even a log cabin is not a complete safety measure as many folks find out when they return in the spring. No, nothing is completely safe, but indeed, lot's of things you can and should do. However, camping in a tent by yourself is probably not on that list any longer given what many consider significant changes in bear behavior.
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true that but not exactly what i was talking about.

i ment sleeping arrangements. the nicest tent in the world wont keep you safe from a determined bear, but neither will a house. you would pretty much need a concrete box with a vault door and no windows to be 100% bear safe
 
Tens of thousands of people camp in tents in Yellowstone safely every summer. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, camp safely in tents in bear country all across N.- America every year. Bear attacks on tents are extraordinarily rare (that is why it was in the news!) and almost always involve food or other strong odors. The last "aggressive bear" that killed anyone here in Utah took a kid from his tent in his sleep. The tent, the kid, and the campsite and adjacent sites had food all over them.

Keep a clean camp. Never sleep in the same clothing or tent that you cooked or ate in. Leave your cosmetics, cologne, and scented soaps at home. Keep food and odorous materials in yourvehicle or way up out of reach. Camp smart.

Also, bear spray is not meant to make the bear run away to never return, it is ONLY meant to give you enough time to get away safely. If you ever spray a bear, you better get while the gettin is good. THe victim the OP references made a big mistake by sticking around long enough for the angry-hungry bear to return.
 
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paintballdude902 said:
true that but not exactly what i was talking about.

i ment sleeping arrangements. the nicest tent in the world wont keep you safe from a determined bear, but neither will a house. you would pretty much need a concrete box with a vault door and no windows to be 100% bear safe
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Hmm, concrete box?

No, that is a bit more than is needed. The point of the article in the OP is that bear spray alone is not enough. You need bear spray AND a gun.
 
splattergun said:
Tens of thousands of people camp in tents in Yellowstone safely every summer. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, camp safely in tents in bear country all across N.- America every year. Bear attacks on tents are extraordinarily rare (that is why it was in the news!) and almost always involve food or other strong odors. The last "aggressive bear" that killed anyone here in Utah took a kid from his tent in his sleep. The tent, the kid, and the campsite and adjacent sites had food all over them.

Keep a clean camp. Never sleep in the same clothing or tent that you cooked or ate in. Leave your cosmetics, cologne, and scented soaps at home. Keep food and odorous materials in yourvehicle or way up out of reach. Camp smart.

Also, bear spray is not meant to make the bear run away to never return, it is ONLY meant to give you enough time to get away safely. If you ever spray a bear, you better get while the gettin is good. THe victim the OP references made a big mistake by sticking around long enough for the angry-hungry bear to return.
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Actually, a couple of corrections.

The boy killed in Utah was almost exactly in the same place as another group of campers harassed by the same bear hours before. That was the basis of the lawsuit against the park service.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...d-by-bear-in-American-Fork-Canyon.html?pg=all

Sadly, your Utah case is exactly my point on the safety of camping in tents. It is not enough in many cases. The Utah case is one more in that series showing the dangers that people need to account in their camping plans.

Secondly,the bear in the article in my OP NEVER left the camp. It was only a temporary end to the mauling. That is the behavior of predatory bear attacks well documented by several bear experts such as James Gary Shelton for instance. Pepper spray with black bears is not as effective in many cases as with grizzly. Since there are hundreds of thousands of black bears in North America and more of them are becoming habituated to humans, it is only prudent to reconsider camp safety issues in bear country.

Lastly, after the Gallatin bear attacks where one man was killed, tents were banned in three campgrounds. If tents are so safe, why were they banned?

http://www.yellowstoneinsider.com/2...t-camping-in-three-cooke-city-campgrounds.php

http://fishgame.com/newsblog.php?p=625#.UGUAxBxqLEY

As many folks wish to make fun of this thread, the real answer is it is a very pertinent question for all those that went tent camping in bear country for years and years. There is some very real evidence that our campaign of tolerance against bears is reaping changes in bear behavior that is potentially much more dangerous than in the past.
 
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I live less than 3 hours south of Smoky Mt National Park. It has the highest concentration on black bear in the East, probably the country. It also has the most visitors of any National Park in the country. Nothing else comes close. The bears there are not hunted and rarely cause problems. There has been 1 death, about 10 years ago, in the history of the park.

They have few bear problems there because proper safety is stressed by park rangers. They agressevely go after folks who violate rules pertaining to bear safety.

I also hike and camp there regularly as well as in areas with high concentrations of bear in East TN, West NC and N GA. I also hunt extensively in the N GA mountains where we have a 3 month long bear season. There are fewer bear, and they are hunted, yet we have more bear/human problems here.

I know of one problem bear several years ago here in Ga that never hurt anyone, but would steal packs right off hikers backs. Did this seveal times and destroyed several backpackers tents when no one was in them. The problem was traced to backpackers leaving food out for it to get better photos. Once it learned how to get easy food it went after it.

This was on National Forest, not a park. The bear was caught, tagged, released and that section of forest closed until hunting season. The bear was killed by a hunter. Had it survived hunting season the plan was for DNR Rangers to kill it after hunting season.

I still believe that almost all bear attacks are ultimately caused by poor decisions made by humans. Almost all attacks like the one in the OP are done by very young, very small bears that have recently been chased off by their mothers. They are having a hard time surviving and are still learning not to mess with humans.

Most of these small bears are easily discouraged if you understand what they are doing and why. Even without a weapon most adult males could fight one off enough to stop an attack. The bear is stronger than you, but he doesn't know that. Usually throwing rocks and acting agressively will encourage one of these young cubs to look for food elsewhere.

I'd just as soon camp in a tent. In fact most of the places where I camp there is no other option. I cannot carry a camper on a trail. If a bear really wants you they have no trouble breaking into a hard sided camper or even you car. I'll post this link again if you doubt me.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bear..._pw.r_qf.&fp=89785d729b6a246c&biw=837&bih=389
 
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