spring degradation in loaded magazines controversy - American Rifleman

I think you're supposed to also change out your recoil spring every year or thousand rounds, whichever comes first, to one a couple pounds lighter or heavier than factory.
lolz

I do not disagree with the Dobe Bag advice.

We recently discussed the issue, with a definitive (i.e. scientific and observed) conclusion in this thread.

To address this article, it is not entirely correct on two points:

1) Most of the compression, as a portion of the total potential loss, is lost short-term (i.e. a few hours). For example, leaving it loaded 6 months would really be no different than leaving it loaded 6 years. There could, of course, be exceptions. The solution would be to get a spring designed such that there is no significant loss if the magazine will be left loaded for an extended period.
2) Loss of compression is dependent on many factors, so the exact time would have to be determined experimentally for a particular spring design. Not impossible to determine, but it would be a hassle.

Leaving a clip loaded for the duration.........what`s the point? Is it just to say it`s been loaded (under pressure) for ever ? Makes you wonder sometime.

How about if it "were" a 10 round clip, just load it with 5-6. Now the spring isn`t Maxed out. J s/n.

I'm one of the people that as a general rule, doesnt believe leaving magazines loaded hurts anything. I leave mine loaded and have never had an issue. It does make me wonder though, If you leave the torque cranked up on a torque wrench it knocks it out of whack in a hurry, so there must be something to leaving springs compressed. I just dont think its enough of a something to bother a firearm.

I recall one of the big gun magazines coming into possession of a number of M1911 magazines that had been left loaded since WWII.
They all functioned perfectly.

At least one metallurgist who posts on one of the other forums I frequent said that springs loose strength and weaken by work.. In other words, expanding and compressing.
Just leaving them in a compressed state for long periods does nothing...

All sides of this discussion can reasonably be called correct when you stop to consider that:

1. All springs do not have the same metallurgy, heat treatment, wire cross section shape, surface finish, manufacturing technique, quality control, etc.

2. All magazine designs do not have the same design parameters such as fully loaded compression percentage as compared to free length and how much safety factor on percentage of original spring rate that is required for reliable function.

3. All magazines are not stored in the same environmental conditions.

My opinion is that each person should evaluate their system of springs and magazines and follow a plan that they feel comfortable with.

I keep my magazines fully loaded and have not had a problem in the short (4 or 5 years) time that I have been actively shooting.

Good luck!

Bob

The word "saga" is derived from old Norse describing spring sag. true story

I think that so long as the gun is of recent manufacture and high quality (Glock, S&W, Springfield, Ruger, Colt, etc.) it is of little concern.

In a gun that was manufactured 70-100 years ago- probably best to keep it stored empty.

cycles wear out the spring much faster than letting it store energy.

Springs fail due to excessive "work"

My Glock 17, issued in 1988, has experienced one malfunction.
Several years ago at a qualifier one round hung up inside the magazine, too low for the slide to chamber it.
All three of my carry mags were found to have shortened springs.
The department armorer replaced them, told me when he found mag springs had shortened to a certain degree he replaced them as needed.

This was a known phenomenon at my PD, the second largest in my state.
For that reason, the rest of the time I carried that 17 at that PD, I rotated mags during the year & defied department policy by loading one round light.
Today, when I carry a 17 on my own time, I do the same thing.

I've read the posts, I'm familiar with the "Naw, can't happen" metallurgists, and I've seen it happen myself.

I would say there is no definitive absolute statement about the issue, beyond "it CAN happen".
Denis

No, it's cycles not compression that is a factor.

That said and believed by me, rotate mags monthly.


I rely on revolvers more and more these days. And my M-1 & Mos. 500A.

I'll repeat - cycles and compression are both factors. There is a description of the mechanism in the thread referenced earlier.

Personally, I leave my mags loaded.

Sigh

Take a look outside in your driveway

See that $40k piece of high technology machinery. Its sitting on four springs that are holding up its entire weight.

THEY WILL NOT wear out from sitting in the driveway nor will the dozen or so valve springs that are sitting over open valves at rest for however long the vehicle sits.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

This subject has been debated and argued as long and as fervently as any other firearms-related topic. Maybe more so.

I've listened to more reps, techs, engineers and even spring companies (including at least 1 manufacturer) explain their thoughts and experiences on it. (Sometimes the "ideal" and scientific explanations haven't exactly worked out as planned in the real world, under real-use conditions, it seems. )

I've been reminded numerous times (including by at least 1 spring maker) that not all springs made for all purposes are made the same as all other springs.

I've listened to numerous other firearms instructors and armorers relate their experiences, and listened to no small number of their opinions, too.

I've watched many, many people come through range qual courses-of-fire using magazines that were seldom used for live-fire/practice (according to the owners/users), but left loaded all the time, sometimes for years on end. Lots of instances where mag springs that hadn't seen "cycling" and "constant use from shooting/loading" simply failed to demonstrate sufficient spring tension to allow normal feeding & functioning. Oh well. Good thing it happened in the middle of some course-of-fire, and not in real use.

Then, I've encountered instances of unknowingly defective springs, and have been informed (often by a gun company, rep, etc) of other such instances. Not exactly surprising, considering we're talking about a wire spring, and how a crate of 10,000 springs might have some that aren't exactly on the optimal end of the expected spec. (Does anybody really think they test each and every spring on equipment to make sure it's the same as every other spring?)

I don't really rotate mags, anymore. I periodically replace the springs in the working mags I leave loaded.

Some gun companies have recommendations about time-in-service/rounds fired, and some simply recommend armorers (and users) check spring tension each time the mags are used for range sessions ... and periodically (armorer level inspections) ... and replace as may be necessary, whenever it may be necessary.

There's literally hours of reading available on this subject ... and seemingly little agreement.

In my department's case, I can assure you the shortened springs were NOT the result of repeated cyclings by guys who never fired their Glocks outside of department qualifiers.
Since I wasn't all that fond of the Glock at the time, I rarely fired mine on my own time.

Regardless of what anybody says, I've SEEN it happen myself.
Denis

Springs can lose strength by simply being loaded - stress relaxation is just as much a reality as fatigue. This does not mean that this phenomenon cannot be accounted for by appropriate design and materials selection.

Stress relaxation is also not so much a continuous process - a small amount of loss happens quickly, then pretty much nothing after. Thus, if your magazine hasn't weakened after a few weeks, it's not likely to ever do so appreciably.

Problem is, there are a lot of cheap springs on the market and apparently also used by manufacturers where this was not seriously taken into consideration. Hence, we have reports of users with weakening springs, while others (like myself) leave mags loaded for extended periods with no trouble.

Then there's the additional consideration of the influence presented by caliber in the way of cycling & slide velocity.

I'd be more concerned about seeing weakening springs reaching the failure point in keeping up with slide velocity in the faster cycling .40's & .357's, than the 9's & .45's, myself.

Then, factor in the reduced slide mass and shorter slide runs of some designs.

Then, there's the actual design of the magazine, meaning single versus double stack. The use of smaller wire gauge and differing spring winding/coil size may have an effect in single stack mags, too (think the 7-rd mag bodies for 1911's in which they started stuffing an 8th round). Longer mag bodies for 8-trd mags have allowed some leeway in the design of followers and longer and/or stronger springs.

And then, we're seeing how some owners/users have been expecting the longer mags created for use in larger model pistols to also be used in the smaller, more compact pistols. Some gun companies have used the same springs in various size mags. Expecting the same spring, in the longer mag body, to keep up with the faster cycling compact/subcompact guns ... and in the harder recoiling/faster cycling calibers ... might sometimes offer functioning results that might need to be monitored by the owner/user.

Simple subject. Not so simple range of "answers".

Especially if lives are on the line when it comes to pistols being used as dedicated defensive weapons ...

Only .40S&W mags suffer from spring fatigue due to long-term compression. Mags built for all other calibers are ok.

While I don't believe that long term compression weakens springs, I still rotate out my carry weapons/mags periodically. More out of habit than anything. While I think magazine springs will be worn out EVENTUALLY it will take quiet a bit of time and be related to other factors such as gun abrasives, corrosive components of ammo being fired etc.

For those who have their minds made up, facts are irrelevant.
Denis

Seems hardly likely that springs would lose appreciable amounts of tension as long as the wire diameter is small enough that there is not excessive compression/elongation. People worry about springs getting weak, yet don't worry about springs spontaneously shattering from austenite converting to untempered martensite, extra dislocations from cycling that reduce the elastic range, or some other work/age/precipitation hardening happening while shooting or sitting in the safe on a hot day.