Do you have any need for a shotgun or is the carbine superior in your mind?

Nope. I will always have a shotgun, they are too versatile and can do many thing s a carbine can not do.

My carbine is a some singular purpose gun, where as my 12 gauge is my do-all gun.

Shotgun has many more uses in hunting, from wing shooting to deer, home defense, and time on the range.

The carbine is a little more limited in hunting, varmints and such, can also be used in HD, and fun on the range.


The two firearms are far too different for one to entirely replace the other.

I can honestly find very few negatives about a shotgun. You can load it with slugs and shoot out to 100 yards, buckshot for close stuff and even find flares for them in case of an emergency. This can all be done with1 barrel at the same time.

What exactly does a carbine do other than shoot I particualr projectile? I think there are way more negatives for a carbine than a shotgun.

If you told me that I had to choose, i'd give you the carbine so fast, it'd make your head spin.

I think you should have both. Most of us do.

I agree that the shotgun is more versatile than a carbine. But with the right ammo for HD, both shoudl work equally well. I still have the Benelli Nova TActical 12 gauge always ready in my bedroom.

Have you pushed the shotgun away in favor of the carbine? Explain.

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I have not. As with the other responses I’m not seeing the negatives to shotguns.

There’s nothing wrong with carbines either but if I could only have one it’d be the shotgun without question. Thankfully I can have both.

If you told me that I had to choose, i'd give you the carbine so fast, it'd make your head spin

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Yep gotta agree...

I haven't killed anything with my AR that I couldn't have with one of my shots. I would have a much harder time taking an inflight duck with my AR though. Maybe all 30rds? LOL



Edit to add: I should say I have absolutely no use for a tactical type shotgun. So I would choose the carbine over one of those...

Pretty much what USAF Vet said.
Carbines definitely have range over the shotgun.
But no firearm I can think of is as versatile as a pump shotgun or really any shotgun.
Need it for defense just place a short barrel on it.
Birds and small game just put on a longer barrel.
Big game just go with what you got or place a sighted barrel with rifling or without.
No carbine has that going for it.

Except in very limited exceptions an AR -15 carbine does everything better except cost, and the gap in price is smaller than ever.

At SD ranges a SG does not offer a pattern large enough to improve hit probability over a single rifle projectile.

Good 223 softpoint ammo is more effective against humans at any range.

Even good 223 ammo is cheaper for practice than buckshot or slugs

An AR has about 5 ft lbs of recoil vs 30+ ft lbs for a shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot. That is 300 win mag levels.

A carbine is far more compact and lightweight.

A 223 softpoint round is less likely to overpenetrate in building materials.

A carbine offers up to 6X more ammo capacity.

While you may never need it, a carbine offers much more versatility at longer ranges.

The only situation where a SG has an advantage is if fired at ranges over about 10 yards and up to ranges of about 30 yards. Any closer than 10 yards and a carbine or handgun is a better choice, any farther than 30 yards and a carbine is a better choice.

There is a reason the SG has become obsolete in LE and military use.

At SD ranges a SG does not offer a pattern large enough to improve hit probability over a single rifle projectile.

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I'd take 9 .32cal pellets over 1 .22 caliber bullet any day of the week at SD ranges. At SD ranges, the shotgun remains supreme....imo

Well, since everyone so far has ONLY looked at the shotgun from a SD standpoint, me - being the FUDD I am, will look at it from another point - pure fun. I sold my AR to my son, don't own one anymore, don't care if I never do again...but I own several shotguns and none of them see buckshot or slugs either - they are all designed for killing birds - mostly clay, but also feathered. I shoot about 15,000-20,000 clay target a year - shooting mostly 3-4 times per week - it is my main hobby and my main reason for reloading....(I sure don't miss trimming brass, annealing cases, swaging military crimps, etc)

Sometimes you folks got to look beyond the pure HD/SD aspects and have a little fun with your guns.........

jmr40 said:

Except in very limited exceptions an AR -15 carbine does everything better except cost, and the gap in price is smaller than ever.

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me where to find anything CLOSE to a $300 AR15, even trashed and abused. The cost of a bottom dollar AR15 is right around $600 or so - you can get a beast of a semi-auto shotgun for $600, or a brand new, solid and reliable pump shotgun between $250 and $350 depending on where you go. That looks like a fairly significant price gap to me.

jmr40 said:

At SD ranges a SG does not offer a pattern large enough to improve hit probability over a single rifle projectile.

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You mean there's no improved hit probability between a .70" projectile (or 1-2" spread of buckshot) vs. a .22" projectile? You must have fantastic aim under severe stress (ie, someone breaking into your home at 3am)

jmr40 said:

Good 223 softpoint ammo is more effective against humans at any range.

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Generally if you're shooting humans at range, you're either in the military or will shortly be in jail for murder due to the fact that at further ranges, the threat loses the necessary "Immediacy" that most SYG laws require. At closer (reasonable self defense) ranges, the advantages are nil.

jmr40 said:

Even good 223 ammo is cheaper for practice than buckshot or slugs

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That's one truth, unless you reload, then the difference is significantly less.

jmr40 said:

An AR has about 5 ft lbs of recoil vs 30+ ft lbs for a shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot. That is 300 win mag levels.

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No argument there - The carbine definitely wins in the lack of recoil department, which increases accuracy for follow up shots.

jmr40 said:

A carbine is far more compact and lightweight.

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That's not a given - my 14.5" barreled AR15 carbine is 2 inches shorter than the shotgun I just recently sold, and it's nearly a full pound heavier than a standard $300 synthetic stocked mossberg 500 pump shotgun. 2 inches isn't much when you're talking long guns.

jmr40 said:

A 223 softpoint round is less likely to overpenetrate in building materials.

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.223 FMJ is less likely to overpenetrate through building materials too - Can't disagree with this one either.

jmr40 said:

A carbine offers up to 6X more ammo capacity.

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I understand the argument, but if you can't do it with 5 or 10 rounds, you should probably run away instead of spraying the area with more bullets.

jmr40 said:

While you may never need it, a carbine offers much more versatility at longer ranges.

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Were we talking strictly about self defense, or are we now including hunting and target shooting too?

jmr40 said:

The only situation where a SG has an advantage is if fired at ranges over about 10 yards and up to ranges of about 30 yards. Any closer than 10 yards and a carbine or handgun is a better choice, any farther than 30 yards and a carbine is a better choice.

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The only situation a handgun would be a better choice than a shotgun OR a carbine is if you can't legally or physically handle a long gun in a given situation (carjacking, out in public in some places, etc)

jmr40 said:

There is a reason the SG has become obsolete in LE and military use.

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Really? Obsolete? The U.S. Army has active contracts for shotguns, and every single LE agency I've ever had any kind of experience with still uses shotguns in many MANY circumstances to this day. Where do you live that cops and soldiers don't use shotguns anymore?

Sorry man - I agree with some of what you said, but you're drinking too much kool aid in my opinion.

Are shotguns extremely versatile? Yes, absolutely.
Are carbines just as versatile? Of course.
Is one better for some jobs than for others? You bet.
Is a carbine automatically better for every situation than a shotgun? Maybe if your mall security job requires you to wear Lv. IV body armor and carry MP5's and long range sniper rifles.

this may be irrelevant to most of you but for me i need a shotgun, shooting birds with a carbine is just not safe

It all depends on what you need. Shotguns appear to be more versatile, but rifles are much more efficient and much easier to engineer bullets for. With a rifle, you have varminter rounds, self defense rounds, target rounds, hunting rounds, and armor-piercing rounds. The only thing I would say shotguns are probably truly better for is flying objects, like clays or birds. Rifles also have less recoil and greater capacity, and the smallest legal rifles are smaller than the smallest legal shotguns.

If you're just talking self defense (a major reason many people think every home "needs" a long gun), then I believe the carbine is superior. However, I also think the shotgun is still very good, and I currently own shotguns instead of carbines, because my local indoor range has a FPS limit on bullets.

Anyway, both are great. Carbine is better (IMO). Shotgun gets the job done, usually for cheaper.

Have you pushed the shotgun away in favor of the carbine? Explain.

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Shotgun and Carbine were each designed and built for a specific application. Over the years I have bought and sold countless shotguns (owning a gun shop), I have also hunted extensively using a shotgun. I also enjoyed trap and skeet for several years. So I owned and used both, rifle and shotgun.

However, these days my hunting time is about done and I enjoy target shooting with rifle. I no longer even own a shotgun. The home defense needs are fulfilled using handguns and my range entertainment is all about rifles. I simple have no need for a shotgun based on the intended applications of a shotgun. If a need existed, I would get another shotgun. So while I never really pushed the shotgun away, I simple have no need for or desire to have one right now.

Just Me
Ron

The signs that police shotguns were on the way out were pretty evident when I retired in 1995. The hot trend then was the move to "police carbines" in 9mm or .40cal. The reasons had as much to do with the changing demographics for police recruits as much as anything. Police recruits (of small stature... or females for those that prefer straight talk) were a growing proportion of every recruit class and along with more than a few ordinary recruits who really did have trouble mastering a police shotgun found those urban carbines much easier to learn...

Fast forward to this time with its history of heavily armed bank robbers and the additional specter of possible terrorism (I like Salman Rushdie's name for Homeland Security...."the Department of False Alarms") and now a police carbine is usually an AR and very capable with a trained officer. As a result the police shotgun has faded from view.

I personally regret that situation. In my opinion nothing beats an ordinary riot gun (just as it comes with only a bead sight and four round magazine) for close quarters work at less than 20 meters distance. Yes, the carbine can do more but at close quarters a riot gun with ordinary 00 buck is an argument ender. I relied on one for many years and it allowed me to own every situation that I ever encountered (except one and the other guy did not survive the encounter...).

To understand my position it would probably help to know that I worked in urban/suburban neighborhoods in south Florida from 1973 to 1995 and never had to deal with open country the way many in law enforcement do around the country. Armed encounters were mostly one on one or occasionally multiple armed offenders and you very rarely got to chose where things went down (but we sure tried to set the stage whenever we could...).

Nothing beats a shotgun as an indoor defensive weapon when you take cover and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Not only is a shotgun a close range meat grinder but they operate at lower pressure than rifle rounds meaning that the noise and blast will be more tolerable indoors. The low capacity of a shotgun will not be an issue in home defense unless you are being assaulted by a highly disciplined crack military unit who put the mission above their own lives. 7 or 8 shots should be plenty to stop a home invasion. No criminal is willing to lay down his life so that his surviving buddies can take your big screen TV. Once you shoot the first one the rest will scatter like chickens.

A rifle is what you need if you have to go outdoors.

I'd say have both, but if you only have one, have a carbine/ rifle. I shoot 7.62x39 though.
Personal preferences....

Using any of them inside wouldn't be fun. Agree that a shotgun would be superior for most indoor uses for multiple reasons but mostly because any range benefit of the AR is completely negated then.

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I like the assumption that because the AR is better at longer ranges than a shotgun, it is worse at close ranges. The AR actually has numerous benefits over the shotgun in terms of close quarters. The noise is even going to be within a few decibles, but granted the AR will likely be sharper. The reason most people use shotguns for HD is, IMO, the stigma that the .223 is a varmint cartridge and the shotgun is "the best".

I can't imagine ever giving up my shotguns. Part of that comes from having more trigger time on scatterguns than on anything else, and the long familiarity and decades of successful use breeds confidence. Since I like shotguns I actively experiment with new designs, new loads, accessories etc. And I seek opportunities for training with the shotgun as well - I just finished a one-day shotgun refresher class with Louis Awerbuck last month.

Shotguns are the go-to long guns here. There are three or four that live in hidey holes around the house outside the safe when someone is at home - when the house is empty, they get put away. The shotguns are placed according to the floor plan of the house so that no one can get cut off from a long gun no matter where trouble appears. All are configured to fit the smallest shooter in the house - my wife. They are all 870s in 12 gauge, all have 12.5" LOP stocks and premium recoil pads, 18-20" barrels, no magazine extensions, 4-shot Sidesaddles and weapon lights. Some have sights, some have beads. All sighting systems are tritium. All are loaded with 00 buck in the magazines and Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddles. They are stored in our version of cruiser ready condition - chamber empty, magazine loaded one round down, action closed, hammer cocked and safety on. Those hidden at floor level are stored muzzle down.

A shotgun is likely to be able to do anything I need a defensive long gun to do. If I had to carry it and a few hundred rounds halfway across the county, I'd rather have a carbine, but for the things likely to need confronting around here a shotgun will serve just fine.