Perhaps a better option is the Taurus .410/.45LC revolver
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=201&category=Revolver
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=201&category=Revolver
home defense choices
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DoubleTapDrew
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Maybe, but if someone can't handle a 20/28g shotgun with a stock I think they'd have worse problems with a 45LC/410 handgun.
sicario103
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One thing that is always over looked or ignored is SAFE STORAGE AND PRACTICE. People interested in purchasing a firearm for protection or whatever will ask for advices from the gunshop employee, to a friends to a janitor about whats best for HD. And each one of them will tell them about what they think is best from brand, caliber etc (I do agree some give out wrong advices) but ALMOST ALWAYS neglect to inform them on safe storage and the need to practice. Most people will purchase <blank> and take it home thinking that all their worries about a break in or whatever is gone. They will go out for drinks or whatever and leave their weapon at home for somone to break in a steal it. Or when somone do break in, they don't know how to operate the weapon or ends up shooting himself or somone else by accident.
I think we're the only 2 people that think this way. A pistol with a good caliber is the best HD weapon due to its ease in maneuverability, easier to shoot compared to a shotgun and easy storage.
PaulCSomething
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Working at a sporting goods store some time ago...
I would tell people that a 20 ga pump or auto was a good HD gun, but it must be loaded with something more then bird shot. That was if they didn't like the suggestion of getting a 4" 357/38 revolver or 9MM double action semi.
Long guns are easier to aim then pistols(shotguns must be aimed too!).
I think we all agree that training will make the difference between efectivly using the tool chosen or having a "negative outcome".
I would tell people that a 20 ga pump or auto was a good HD gun, but it must be loaded with something more then bird shot. That was if they didn't like the suggestion of getting a 4" 357/38 revolver or 9MM double action semi.
Long guns are easier to aim then pistols(shotguns must be aimed too!).
I think we all agree that training will make the difference between efectivly using the tool chosen or having a "negative outcome".
DoubleTapDrew
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There's nothing wrong with a good caliber pistol for HD. Rifles and shotguns do have a lot more power and are easier for some people to aim and shoot under stress. There's a reason military and LEO don't transition to their pistols when clearing houses (not advocating that you should clear your house). I think an 11.5" AR with a suppressor would be about ideal for a handy HD gun but I'll probably stick with a shotgun.
+1 on safe storage. Your ideal weapon won't do you much good if you come home and find it missing.
sicario103
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Posted by DoubleTapDrew
That's the thing, military and police train for that, while most armed civilians either do at some degree or not at all. I guess my statement is aimed more towards the less trained civilians.
That's the thing, military and police train for that, while most armed civilians either do at some degree or not at all. I guess my statement is aimed more towards the less trained civilians.
DoubleTapDrew
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I agree, but I meant that the reason they use them is because they pack more of a punch. I could have the ultimate in maneuverability with a derringer in .22 short but I'd rather give up some size for something I know will absolutely do the job if i do my part (hit where I want to).
I just believe pistols are for when size, portability, and concealment are a factor.
Not saying your wrong, I may investigate a bump in the night with a 1911 and a flashlight, but if I'm (or my girlfriend is) defending my position I want a long gun on the door.
I just believe pistols are for when size, portability, and concealment are a factor.
Not saying your wrong, I may investigate a bump in the night with a 1911 and a flashlight, but if I'm (or my girlfriend is) defending my position I want a long gun on the door.
Malice
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I do not buy the 12ga 00 buck idea either. Sure, thats the most power you would want to open up with inside your home. But I am concerned about overpenetration, especialy since I am in an apartment.
However, a .410 with birdshot is nowhere near adequate.
My 870 HD shotgun is loaded with one #4 heavy dove load and then single 0 buck. The butstock shellholder carries 00 and a couple slugs, so I have it if I need it.
However, a .410 with birdshot is nowhere near adequate.
My 870 HD shotgun is loaded with one #4 heavy dove load and then single 0 buck. The butstock shellholder carries 00 and a couple slugs, so I have it if I need it.
I prefer using a carbine for HD...but I don't feel uncomfortable with a sidearm or shotgun. My 12 GA (which wears a shorter Cadet stock) is loaded with Remington Reduced Recoil slugs.
Not. "Close range stopping power", huh? How is that defined, exactly? I don't trust 12 GA birdshot to stop a threat, much less .410 (though I wouldn't cry if all I had to load in my 12 was #4 or larger shot, in an area with nothing larger than black bear or cougar)! I know someone who was shot in the stomach at almost point-blank range when he was screwing around as a teen. .410 birdshot not only didn't kill him, I think he and his careless friend walked for help. He was skinny as a teen, too, so it's not like he had a lot of mass to stop the shot.
Folks who think sidearms are ideal for house use either need to stay in one room, or get more damn training. Seriously. Longarms have the following advantages:
More power
More controllability
Faster (at all but point blank range; this has been tested)
More accurate, even with unaimed fire
Many of these advantages are due to the weapon's stock, which also makes a nonfunctioning longarm a much more effective impact tool.
It has been often said that it's the user, not the tool, which is true to a large degree. That said, there are better and worse tools. I probably could use a black powder rifle, but would definitely be more effective with something else.
John
Not. "Close range stopping power", huh? How is that defined, exactly? I don't trust 12 GA birdshot to stop a threat, much less .410 (though I wouldn't cry if all I had to load in my 12 was #4 or larger shot, in an area with nothing larger than black bear or cougar)! I know someone who was shot in the stomach at almost point-blank range when he was screwing around as a teen. .410 birdshot not only didn't kill him, I think he and his careless friend walked for help. He was skinny as a teen, too, so it's not like he had a lot of mass to stop the shot.
Folks who think sidearms are ideal for house use either need to stay in one room, or get more damn training. Seriously. Longarms have the following advantages:
More power
More controllability
Faster (at all but point blank range; this has been tested)
More accurate, even with unaimed fire
Many of these advantages are due to the weapon's stock, which also makes a nonfunctioning longarm a much more effective impact tool.
It has been often said that it's the user, not the tool, which is true to a large degree. That said, there are better and worse tools. I probably could use a black powder rifle, but would definitely be more effective with something else.
John
sicario103
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Posted by JShirley
Could you expend on this two points on how it would better than a handgun.
Could you expend on this two points on how it would better than a handgun.
The stock makes it easier to swing up onto target, as well as handle recoil quicker, transitioning from target to target if confronting multiple threats.
Or even, multiple game. I shot two deer running through heavy brush with my shotgun. No way I could have made shot both with any of my sidearms.
The only time this is not the case, is at just a couple of feet. Even then, personally, I'd prefer a longarm.
Hope this helps,
John
Or even, multiple game.
I shot two deer running through heavy brush with my shotgun. No way I could have made shot both with any of my sidearms.The only time this is not the case, is at just a couple of feet. Even then, personally, I'd prefer a longarm.
Hope this helps,
John
sicario103
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JShirley
Would you say there's a big margin of difference to say that a longarm is better then a sidearm in respect to those two points? Or a marginal difference in performance thus offering no real advanatage of one over the other?
I completely agree with you on power and that it has a better chance of hitting with unaimed fire. But I'm not too sure about controllability or being faster. But before I go any further, I will first admit that I have a limited long arm experience compared to sidearms. That being said I found it faster to maneuver, and control from target to target much easier in tight areas (especially around tight corners) with a sidearm. I remember asking this very same issue a while back to some of my friends who belong to special units in the police force (and they have done plenty of searches and shootouts in tight areas such as houses and South American slums) and close to most of them felt the same way I did.
Would you say there's a big margin of difference to say that a longarm is better then a sidearm in respect to those two points? Or a marginal difference in performance thus offering no real advanatage of one over the other?
I completely agree with you on power and that it has a better chance of hitting with unaimed fire. But I'm not too sure about controllability or being faster. But before I go any further, I will first admit that I have a limited long arm experience compared to sidearms. That being said I found it faster to maneuver, and control from target to target much easier in tight areas (especially around tight corners) with a sidearm. I remember asking this very same issue a while back to some of my friends who belong to special units in the police force (and they have done plenty of searches and shootouts in tight areas such as houses and South American slums) and close to most of them felt the same way I did.
Being that i am 19, 6'1" and about 180lbs, i can handle a 12 ga. with no problem. That being said, i'll keep my maverick 88 for potential BGs.
there are alot of people who cant comfortably handle the size, weight, recoil, etc. from a 12 ga. for them maybe a pistol caliber carbine would be best, but it really comes down to what your comfortable with.
I like the 00 buck out of my 12 ga. because i am confident that i can handle it well, and that it will stop a BG right the *#@! now.
there are alot of people who cant comfortably handle the size, weight, recoil, etc. from a 12 ga. for them maybe a pistol caliber carbine would be best, but it really comes down to what your comfortable with.
I like the 00 buck out of my 12 ga. because i am confident that i can handle it well, and that it will stop a BG right the *#@! now.
sicario,
The stock helps align a longarm on target, even if you don't have time to look through/over the sights. It DOES make a big difference.
A sidearm extended in a proper shooting stance will extend about as far as a carbine. Try it. Have someone stand to the side of you, and mark how far you extend with each. You may be surprised.
John
The stock helps align a longarm on target, even if you don't have time to look through/over the sights. It DOES make a big difference.
A sidearm extended in a proper shooting stance will extend about as far as a carbine. Try it. Have someone stand to the side of you, and mark how far you extend with each. You may be surprised.
John
danger danger will robinson!!
shooting a perp with a load .410 birdshot will lead to your empty .410 being ripped out of your hands and turned into a club to beat you and yours to death with!
20 ga auto with #1 buck O.K. but a .410 with birdshot no way.If you want a low recoil and easy to shoot gun get a pistol caliber carbine.
Sorry if this seams harsh but this is how I realy feel. You will be puting your life in danger by using a firearm that will not stop your enemy.
shooting a perp with a load .410 birdshot will lead to your empty .410 being ripped out of your hands and turned into a club to beat you and yours to death with!
20 ga auto with #1 buck O.K. but a .410 with birdshot no way.If you want a low recoil and easy to shoot gun get a pistol caliber carbine.
Sorry if this seams harsh but this is how I realy feel. You will be puting your life in danger by using a firearm that will not stop your enemy.
Lots of feedback. Good to see. My opinion is......
At the risk of repeating some things, let me just add these thoughts.
I grew up in a home with military and law enforcement on both sides of the family. My first gun was given to me around 1967.
1] If at all possible I feel better seeing someone get something that they are willing to practice with. It is a dangerous, and sad situation, when gets a gun, and then stows it away never to be seen again, except for maybe an annual "dusting".
2] Shotguns can be good, but if you are in an apartment in a situation with very little room to move around in, a handgun may be a good idea.
3] Revolvers: I personally like the .357 magnum. You can practice with both .38 and 357 ammo.
4] Semi Auto pistol: Lots of ideas out there. For me, I personally like the .45 acp since it seems to have less perceived recoil, and the cartridge is definitely a time tested round.
At the risk of repeating some things, let me just add these thoughts.
I grew up in a home with military and law enforcement on both sides of the family. My first gun was given to me around 1967.
1] If at all possible I feel better seeing someone get something that they are willing to practice with. It is a dangerous, and sad situation, when gets a gun, and then stows it away never to be seen again, except for maybe an annual "dusting".
2] Shotguns can be good, but if you are in an apartment in a situation with very little room to move around in, a handgun may be a good idea.
3] Revolvers: I personally like the .357 magnum. You can practice with both .38 and 357 ammo.
4] Semi Auto pistol: Lots of ideas out there. For me, I personally like the .45 acp since it seems to have less perceived recoil, and the cartridge is definitely a time tested round.
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