Batoning is bogus

Yep cutting wood for home we make wedges before we go. But if you bust one they are easy to make with a good axe.

You know, as a guy who as taken out more than my share of of trees with a variet of knives from a bayonet (the saw back actually works...) to a machete

I'll take a Chainsaw, thank you very much
just a cause you can, don't mean you gotta


HE HE HE
and I have you all beat

I've split wood with a butter knife HA...

A surprisingly small amount of thermite makes batoning for dry wood unnecessary ... and it's a lot more fun.

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Now that is funny!

I agree, it is a technique I have never used, but then again all of my packs from backpacking, to hunting have a small hatchet.

Back to Scouts: "Be prepared."

I always bring a hunting/camp saw when I backpack or camp. Never had to baton, never wanted to baton. Beating on a good knife just seems senseless to me.

I think the main time that the knife comes into play is when you aren't otherwise prepared. If you're hauling around all of your camping gear for an extended stay, then getting stuck outdoors is just extra days of camping, not a survival situation.

The majority of people that I've seen in the news for survival situations fall into one of three categories: day hikers, skiers, and motorists in remote areas. If you're one of the first two, you may not have an axe or a saw, and it's a lot easier to convince someone to take along a few ounces of knife than tools that they likely won't need. The motorist should have more gear in their car, but most don't. You don't expect to die on the way to grandmother's house, even if is over the river and through the woods.

So, for those not expecting to be out long, having some kind of knife makes sense as a bare minimum, along with a small survival kit. Folding saws are pretty light too, but they aren't without their own pros and cons.

^^^ Sure. Right. I get that and well stated BLB68 but... BATONING? Where does potentially ruining your second most important survival tool and possibly harming one's self become a good idea - even if the knife in theory can survive it?

I'm not buying it. No scenario ever calls for the practice of batoning as shown throughout the internet.

I've built fires in rain forest - real rain forest where in theory nothing is dry - and jungle and have yet to get anywhere near batoning.

As a basic test of a knife's architecture and materials I guess it's right up there with the knife maker beating up vices, table legs and whatnots at a gun/knife show. He's not saying his is the knife to buy for when you need to attack a table or a vice - he's just saying the knife can stand up to this ridiculous abuse.

I get it as a test if that's the level of potential performance one wants/needs but get weary hearing about it being a valid use for a knife - particularly in a "survival" scenario.

Fat_46 said:

It's a technique I use rarely, but do use. Mostly its for cutting a branch or 6 I didn't notice when setting up a treestand

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Sounds more like you're describing chopping with a knife to me.

Carrying a larger knife allows one tool to do multiple jobs.

Batoning could be one of those jobs. If you're worried about your knife breaking during such use, perhaps a different knife is in order.

Cody Lundin batoned his economical Mora thru a couple saplings on Dual Survival, so batoning doesn't always mean going thru a 16" diameter log.

The majority of people that I've seen in the news for survival situations fall into one of three categories: day hikers, skiers, and motorists in remote areas. If you're one of the first two, you may not have an axe or a saw, and it's a lot easier to convince someone to take along a few ounces of knife than tools that they likely won't need.

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This is the reason that I have a Bark River Bravo 1 in my Messenger Bag. I know that, no matter where I end up, I can use it (as a last resort) to break wood into small burnable pieces and get a fire going.

The Bravo 1, with a 4.25" blade at .20" thick, is as small as a knife can get and still do anything asked of a knife including batoning, in my opinion. They're small enough to wear in a high riding kydex holster under an untucked t-shirt. Also, even though the blade is thick, the hand ground convex edge puts it up there with my best slicers. Really no reason not to have one along. They're pretty too:

^^^ Sure. Right. I get that and well stated BLB68 but... BATONING? Where does potentially ruining your second most important survival tool and possibly harming one's self become a good idea - even if the knife in theory can survive it?

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The more you know, the less you need.

Jeff Randall, of ESEE Knives/ Randall's Adventure Training, uses a tiny Maxpedition Pygmy Falcon for his bugout bag while most people on the internet use a huge rucksack that I could hide my wife in.

For the rest of us, batoning with a knife is quite reasonable so long as we didn't buy a piece of crap that will break when used hard.

Anyone ever use a froe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe

A froe is a wood splitting tool that is basically a knife on an L shaped handle that is used by striking the back side with a mallet. I bought one in an antique store and put it back into service.

Anyone ever use a froe?

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My dad and one of his brothers used one to make white oak splits for basket weaving.

Maybe I am missing the point. If I want to get to dry heartwood I use a knife to whittle away the bark and sub bark. I save the bark. It can be dried by the fire for subsequent starts. Batoning seems like a "my knife is bigger than your knife" exercise. Not trying to preach or teach. Just seems logical to me.

Jim

JimStC said:

Batoning seems like a "my knife is bigger than your knife" exercise.

Jim

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It seems you have just one idea of what batoning is or can be.

As I previously mentioned, survival instructor Cody Lundin batons thru saplings with regularity using a $15 Mora.

David,
Not trying to argue. As Thoreau said "simplicity..."
Why baton, when there are better techniques to protect your knife?
YMMV.....
Jim

Why baton, when there are better techniques to protect your knife?

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Because if you know proper techniques batoning won't hurt your knife. To confuse matters even more, I even baton my hatchet.

When I learned it we called it "using your sheath knife for a splitting wedge" and it was several decades before the internet came along.

I do it for convience and have yet to break a blade (see several decades before the internet). Sure a hatchet would be better. Like last firday though it might be a pain to go get it.

I think we may be argueing several different things.

Is it an essentual survival skill? likely not. Though suppose you have limited mobility and need a fire right now?

Is it a useful thing to know and perhaps have some experience with? yes

Should you do it if you have a hatchet handy? No

Should we spend so much time effort and band width argueing about a personal choice? Nope.

-kBob

My introduction to batoning was less for for firemaking purposes and presented as more of a shelter-making/trap making/etc. where you needed planks (much like the froe mentioned earlier in the thread). The idea was more of a primitive survival type of thing where the knife was the only tool you had as I understood it.

As for breaking them, I'm sure it can happen but I've batonned a cheap $8 Mora into seasoned firewood until it got stuck - and I wasn't gentle in removing it; but the Mora did not break or even roll the edge and this wasn't even a full tang Mora. On the flip side, that experience certainly convinced me that if I had a hatchet or saw available, I'd use it before I tried to baton with a Mora.