Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Batoning is bogus

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by ricebasher302, Nov 11, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    48,753
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    One of our Finnish members pointed out that carving a wedge and using it was preferable to using a knife. That was a "DOH!" moment for me reading that advice.
     
  2. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,369
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    Yep cutting wood for home we make wedges before we go. But if you bust one they are easy to make with a good axe.
     
  3. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    You know, as a guy who as taken out more than my share of of trees with a variet of knives from a bayonet (the saw back actually works...) to a machete

    I'll take a Chainsaw, thank you very much
    just a cause you can, don't mean you gotta


    HE HE HE
    and I have you all beat

    I've split wood with a butter knife HA...
     
  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    48,753
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
  5. Charles S

    Charles S Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,026
    Location:
    North East Texas
    Now that is funny!

    I agree, it is a technique I have never used, but then again all of my packs from backpacking, to hunting have a small hatchet.

    Back to Scouts: "Be prepared."
     
  6. ricebasher302

    ricebasher302 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Wyoming
    HSO, Thanks for the link. 'Twas a good read. I will concede that some reasonable points have been made. Obviously, if you found yourself in an unfortunate situation where the technique of batoning was for some reason your ONLY way to make a fire, one would do so, but I find this scenario unlikely. This quote from the old thread basically sums up how I still feel. I guess I'm just a bit too practical:

     
  7. Pilot

    Pilot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    6,652
    Location:
    USA
    I always bring a hunting/camp saw when I backpack or camp. Never had to baton, never wanted to baton. Beating on a good knife just seems senseless to me.
     
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    48,753
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    ricebasher302,

    We still end up with the problem of what to do when everything is wet and you don't have an axe.
    It can rain for a week around where I live leaving no dry wood to collect. It can do that off and on for weeks this time of year. That means splitting those dead limbs mentioned to get to the dry wood inside.
    Is there any need to split anything bigger than you need to? Nope.
    Is there much need to split anything bigger than an inch or two to get to the dry wood inside? Nope.
    Anything bigger than that is probably an exercise instead of necessity.
    Is it best to use a small axe to do it? Depends on the size of the wood. At under 2 inches, no, but above yes.

    There's no "one size fits all" answer.
     
  9. BLB68

    BLB68 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Messages:
    870
    Location:
    WA
    I think the main time that the knife comes into play is when you aren't otherwise prepared. If you're hauling around all of your camping gear for an extended stay, then getting stuck outdoors is just extra days of camping, not a survival situation.

    The majority of people that I've seen in the news for survival situations fall into one of three categories: day hikers, skiers, and motorists in remote areas. If you're one of the first two, you may not have an axe or a saw, and it's a lot easier to convince someone to take along a few ounces of knife than tools that they likely won't need. The motorist should have more gear in their car, but most don't. You don't expect to die on the way to grandmother's house, even if is over the river and through the woods.

    So, for those not expecting to be out long, having some kind of knife makes sense as a bare minimum, along with a small survival kit. Folding saws are pretty light too, but they aren't without their own pros and cons.
     
  10. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,609
    Location:
    Arizona
    ^^^ Sure. Right. I get that and well stated BLB68 but... BATONING? Where does potentially ruining your second most important survival tool and possibly harming one's self become a good idea - even if the knife in theory can survive it?

    I'm not buying it. No scenario ever calls for the practice of batoning as shown throughout the internet.

    I've built fires in rain forest - real rain forest where in theory nothing is dry - and jungle and have yet to get anywhere near batoning.

    As a basic test of a knife's architecture and materials I guess it's right up there with the knife maker beating up vices, table legs and whatnots at a gun/knife show. He's not saying his is the knife to buy for when you need to attack a table or a vice - he's just saying the knife can stand up to this ridiculous abuse.

    I get it as a test if that's the level of potential performance one wants/needs but get weary hearing about it being a valid use for a knife - particularly in a "survival" scenario.
     
  11. David E

    David E Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,455
    Sounds more like you're describing chopping with a knife to me.

    Carrying a larger knife allows one tool to do multiple jobs.

    Batoning could be one of those jobs. If you're worried about your knife breaking during such use, perhaps a different knife is in order.

    Cody Lundin batoned his economical Mora thru a couple saplings on Dual Survival, so batoning doesn't always mean going thru a 16" diameter log.
     
  12. ricebasher302

    ricebasher302 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Wyoming
    I can see this being legit.
     
  13. RatDrall

    RatDrall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    796
    This is the reason that I have a Bark River Bravo 1 in my Messenger Bag. I know that, no matter where I end up, I can use it (as a last resort) to break wood into small burnable pieces and get a fire going.

    The Bravo 1, with a 4.25" blade at .20" thick, is as small as a knife can get and still do anything asked of a knife including batoning, in my opinion. They're small enough to wear in a high riding kydex holster under an untucked t-shirt. Also, even though the blade is thick, the hand ground convex edge puts it up there with my best slicers. Really no reason not to have one along. They're pretty too:

    002.gif

    The more you know, the less you need.

    Jeff Randall, of ESEE Knives/ Randall's Adventure Training, uses a tiny Maxpedition Pygmy Falcon for his bugout bag while most people on the internet use a huge rucksack that I could hide my wife in.

    For the rest of us, batoning with a knife is quite reasonable so long as we didn't buy a piece of crap that will break when used hard.
     
  14. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,524
    Anyone ever use a froe?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe

    A froe is a wood splitting tool that is basically a knife on an L shaped handle that is used by striking the back side with a mallet. I bought one in an antique store and put it back into service.
     
  15. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    7,416
    Location:
    Alabama
    My dad and one of his brothers used one to make white oak splits for basket weaving.
     
  16. JimStC

    JimStC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    664
    Location:
    Central Indiana
    Maybe I am missing the point. If I want to get to dry heartwood I use a knife to whittle away the bark and sub bark. I save the bark. It can be dried by the fire for subsequent starts. Batoning seems like a "my knife is bigger than your knife" exercise. Not trying to preach or teach. Just seems logical to me.

    Jim
     
  17. David E

    David E Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,455
    It seems you have just one idea of what batoning is or can be.

    As I previously mentioned, survival instructor Cody Lundin batons thru saplings with regularity using a $15 Mora.
     
  18. JimStC

    JimStC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    664
    Location:
    Central Indiana
    David,
    Not trying to argue. As Thoreau said "simplicity..."
    Why baton, when there are better techniques to protect your knife?
    YMMV.....
    Jim
     
  19. dayhiker

    dayhiker Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    306
    Because if you know proper techniques batoning won't hurt your knife. To confuse matters even more, I even baton my hatchet. :neener:
     
  20. ricebasher302

    ricebasher302 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Wyoming
    It's not a debate of whether or not one should be able to beat on the spine of his/her knife with a large stick. Do what you wish with your knife. I could not care less.

    It's the idea that batoning is a necessary skill to the survivalist in an emergency fire-starting situation. I think that most people are kidding themselves if they think it really offers any benefit in this situation. What likely began as a neato, chest thumping knife trick artificially (via the internet) became the most important survival skill any outdoorsman could possibly know.

    And as HSO and others have mentioned, batoning can be a means of extracting dry wood from within small branches, but it seem that so many "survivalists" on Youtube inevitably demostrate their keen ability to club their blade through a 18-inch thick piece of chainsaw cut hardwood. This is a joke.
     
  21. kBob

    kBob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,447
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    When I learned it we called it "using your sheath knife for a splitting wedge" and it was several decades before the internet came along.

    I do it for convience and have yet to break a blade (see several decades before the internet). Sure a hatchet would be better. Like last firday though it might be a pain to go get it.

    I think we may be argueing several different things.

    Is it an essentual survival skill? likely not. Though suppose you have limited mobility and need a fire right now?

    Is it a useful thing to know and perhaps have some experience with? yes

    Should you do it if you have a hatchet handy? No

    Should we spend so much time effort and band width argueing about a personal choice? Nope.

    -kBob
     
  22. ricebasher302

    ricebasher302 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Kinda what we're all here for, ain't it? A bunch a like-minded goons bangin' heads and spouting opinions, experience and knowledge. That's why I like it here.
     
  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    48,753
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    "Goons"
    "Bashing heads"

    Not hardly.

    "Sharing opinions"

    That's more like it.

    I've used a knife to split smaller diameter wet wood to get to the interior dry wood. Some have "whittled" to get to dry wood. Some have never needed to.

    On THR whether we respect each opinion or not we respect the other person enough to keep it civil so we can actually have a debate instead of disagreements.
     
  24. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    My introduction to batoning was less for for firemaking purposes and presented as more of a shelter-making/trap making/etc. where you needed planks (much like the froe mentioned earlier in the thread). The idea was more of a primitive survival type of thing where the knife was the only tool you had as I understood it.

    As for breaking them, I'm sure it can happen but I've batonned a cheap $8 Mora into seasoned firewood until it got stuck - and I wasn't gentle in removing it; but the Mora did not break or even roll the edge and this wasn't even a full tang Mora. On the flip side, that experience certainly convinced me that if I had a hatchet or saw available, I'd use it before I tried to baton with a Mora.
     
  25. ricebasher302

    ricebasher302 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Allow me to rephrase: A bunch of like-minded enthusiasts considering each others' thoughts and feelings while humbly offering opinions, experience and knowledge.:)

    Anyway, trap-making is something I'd never considered. I've built figure four traps in the shop just to gain an understanding of their function but of course used scrap lumber to build them. Making one with round branches could be difficult. If you could baton a couple pieces so that they had some flat sides, it would make the trap more functional I'd imagine. This seems like a viable use for batoning.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page