registered guns

WA state claims there is no registration. BUT if you have a CPL, the police have a database of all CPL holders AND it shows exactly what guns you have purchased.

The Instant Check NICS records are supposed to be thrown out if the gun purchaser is cleared.

The Form 4473 transaction record when the gun was bought, however, will be kept in the dealers bound book and if the dealer goes out of business the 4473s become property of the ATF.

The ATF can trace a crime scene gun from dealer/importer records to distributor records to retail sales record--the 4473--as part of an ongoing investigation. Also a lot of guns reported stolen go on the crime info computer NCIC.

am i watching to much tv? i see all the time that a person has been arrested for a nonregistered firearm.

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Aren't we all? NYC is really big on registration. There are about 25,000 registered handguns in NYC. There are an estimated one to two million unregistered handguns "on the streets" in NYC, the number cited sourced variously to ATF or NYPD. SO, if the TV show is set in NYC, nonregistered firearm is a BIG DEAL. Some New York writers are unaware of anything else being the norm.

When you fill out the registration at your gun dealer it never leaves their business until 20 years later when it is destroyed. Also, you might be interested to know that some ex-felons are not banned from gun ownership. It depends on their conviction and if all their rights were restored in the end.

I can't speak to any other states, but california's registration is pretty screwed up. I recently got one of the CA attorney general reports on the guns that I purchased back in the 1960s when I lived there. Two guns were not on the report and one of the two that were stolen in the mid 1980s was still shown as being in my possession.

I always get a kick out of the CSI programs (Miami & Las Vegas) with their [unregistered] guns since neither FL or NV have any registration.

4473 Forms

I can assure you the Feds are not throwing out the 4477 Forums.

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It is the dealer who 'throws them out', not the feds.

...you might be interested to know that some ex-felons are not banned from gun ownership.

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I don't think ANY ex-felons/felons are banned from gun ownership. It's the POSSESSION of a firearm from which they are prohibited. This thread isn't about that though; drift apologies.

FL has a state law AGAINST registering firearms. I always got a kick out of the tattle tales who would try to rat out an X friend to me. They'd tell me "he smokes weed" I'd be like "oh my God call the DEA!" Then they'd tell me "he has a gun and it isn't registered" then I'd get to say "it BETTER not be!" Eventually they'd figure out I wasn't a dog they could just sick on people they didn't like anymore

Unfortunately, you would be very surprised how much info makes it from the 4473 to the ATF I know because I was one of only two officers, at my old agency, who was authorized to use the ATF's "trace" system. I had my own login on their website and, when I entered a serial number, I would get the last time it was sold from a dealer AND the name of the purchaser. I guess technically they're not registering guns but rather recording transactions

It is a 4473, and the 'bound book' lives forever.

in california it is de facto registered with the state DOJ when you buy a handgun from a dealer or do the lawful thing and do a PPT at an FFL. Long guns will be starting 1-1-13.
beleive it or dont it IS still legal to own a "un registered" gun but there are enhancements for using one in a crime. it is also legal to buy a 50+ year old long gun in your favorite parking lot without the benefit of a FFL and waiting 10 days. only pre 1899 handguns can you do that in CA. interfamily tarnsfer is a different story and you are supposed to self mail in a piece of paper to .gov with $19 telling them your dad gave you a handgun.

i have no doubt the 4473 data is held somewhere forever.

The biggest perpetrator of this notion is on cop shows, Law & Order in particular. They always manage to know who owns every single gun in the city. New York does require registration, but they don't very often show how it works in the vast majority of gun crimes there, where the perp uses......SOMEONE ELSE'S GUN.

They also loudly lament that it is easy to bring in a gun from out of state, because the rest of them aren't as wise as New York.

BSA1 said:

Most states are already registering gun owners though such things as Permit to Purchase Firearm and Concealed Carry Permits.

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Ummm, nope.

You can own a gun without a Carry Permit. And having a Carry Permit does not mean you own a gun (reasonable to assume I agree, but not a sure thing)

All in all, there are actually very -few- places in this country that have gun "registration". Its a myth perpetuated by TV and the media.

Same goes for the "stolen gun list". I'm an FFL, and I don't have any way on this gods green earth of determining if a gun is "stolen" or not.

ElToro said:

i have no doubt the 4473 data is held somewhere forever.

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The 4473 "data" exists no where else than on the 4473 form. That sits in the FFL's file cabinet for a minimum of 7 years, after which he can destroy it. His "bound book" he has to keep for 20.

The only 4473 info that is sent to NICS for the background check is Name, address, height/weight/ethnicity, M/F, place of birth/residence, ssn if supplied, upin if supplied. The ONLY gun related info is "Long gun, Hand Gun, Other".

Wa state!!

Most of you CLEARLY don't know WA state.

Absolutely every time a CPL owner buys a gun it goes on a list, by NAME, showing EVERY GUN purchased from a dealer since obtaining the CPL. Every 2 bit cop and podunk force can simply click twice and see what you have purchased. Of course nothing comes OFF the list.

It's incredibly stupid and many here as we learn of this list think it violates the state and US Constitution.

http://seattleguns.net/showthread.php?167436-So-the-police-have-my-CPL-and-firearm-ownership-info-in-a-stop

I have informed the 2nd Ad. Org locally. This could be interesting.

mljdeckard, Law and Order, while a great show for pure entertainment, is produced by that rabid anti, Dick Wolf. Even on the one or two shows where he shows a law abiding gun owner in the right, the gun owner is portrayed as a scumbag just barely on the good side of legal, and the cops hate him anyway. I wonder how Ice-T manages to work under that, considering he's very pro gun. On the other hand, as said, it's entertainment, and even though I can count Constitutional violations on one, sometimes both hands per episode, it's just TV, means nothing.
I love living in AZ...registration is a big no-no.

Most writers for tv shows do not know acutal laws and/or police procedures and just write in what they think it is, which is most often times wrong.

A friend of mine has a pistol he said he will never part with because it registered to a dead guy in Chicago!
I only have 2 registered guns out of the dozen or so I own.
I am sure my concealed carry permit puts me on a list some where, even here in Wisconsin

Most states are already registering gun owners though such things as Permit to Purchase Firearm and Concealed Carry Permits.

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well, not really.......even if my state knows I have a CCW, they have NO idea what guns I own...............getting a CCW doesn't even mean gun ownership

try again........

I live in Michigan.

To carry concealed you have to have a Concealed Pistol License issued by the state.

To purchase a handgun you must either have a CPL or get a purchase permit from the local police department.

You have 10 days from date of purchase to register the gun with the local police department. By submitting paperwork on the gun you purchased including the serial number.

Failure to do any of the above is a crime.

What do you suppose the state does with this information?

Gun Registration is a violation of the 2nd amendment, pure and simple.

Back in 1988 I got stationed out in Las Vegas. We lived 2 blocks inside city limits, so I had to take my pistol downtown for it to be registered and checked against a list of stolen guns. Not sure if that's still required or not, but it was a Las Vegas thing, not Nevada.

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That is not Las Vegas, but a Clark County rule. Because Las Vegas is in Clark County, they have to follow that law.

It is still wrong, however.

Pops

Employment took me to Upstate New York a few years ago. I had a Concealed Carry Permit issued by the county, good statewide, except NYC and all my handguns had to be listed on the permit and that list is attached to your permit. If I wanted to buy a new pistol it required two trips to the dealer one to purchase and get serial #, then to the county clerk to add it to my permit, then back to the dealer, show him my amended permit so I could then take possession. I am sooo glad I moved to Arizona!

brickeyee said:

It is a 4473, and the 'bound book' lives forever.

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Only if your definition of "forever" is 20 years.

"Gun Registration is a violation of the 2nd amendment, pure and simple."

It may be pure and simple but the United States Supreme Court has never agreed that registration is a violation of the 2nd amendment.

If the NICS record of a background check is deleted after 24 hours as the law "requires", I am a Chinaman. I am confident that the feds have a record that John Doe bought "a handgun" on December 1st from Acme Guns. If they care to call or drop in on the dealer for a "trace" they have a lot of leverage to make him look up the same in his book and yellow dog files.

The system is not as efficient as it could be to the tastes of the bureaucrats, but it will get the job done. Years ago, the Charter Arms .38 that Arthur Bremer had carelessly bought under his own name to shoot George Wallace with was traced to him in a matter of hours. I wonder if they have better files now? Not really.