How do LEO's see CCWer's?

Glockedout17 said:

I also wanted to get some feedback from LEO's. Do they see us as a threat or do they consider us law abiding citizens and respect us a bit more?

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As a police officer, it has always been my opinion that those who possess CCW permits/licenses are, by definition, law-abiding folks (otherwise they couldn't get a CCW permit/license) who deserve all the respect- those who fit that description are the absolute least of my concern.

Heck, in two instances, I've even been invited and gone shooting with people that I've contacted in the field.

I once had an awkwerd conversation with a policewoman, about why MY gun was stashed under the seat of MY FREINDS CAR I was ridng in. I think it is beter you tell them, then they get a bug up their rear (for whatever reason) and search the car. If they search the car and find it, then it would be a bit more complicated then if you told them from the get go. Granted, no cop has ever requested to search my car on a traffic stop, but I feel it is just better to be open. After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

As long as a rookie is with their TO, my experience has been good (hilarious, in a couple of incidents). FWIW, street cops who have patrol areas of colleges have started to hyperventilate - but it's always been okay. They have a rolling sideshow, IMO, and are given every courtesy. Metro cops have been hit & miss, but cheerful, open courtesy wins every time. Rural cops with any time on the job are folks I'd have over to share lunch with - great folks with better stories!

Colorado has some really diverse political demographics, so it's just a matter of realizing where you are and when that sets me up for success if there's any need to interact with a badge on the clock.

(shrugging)

Don't drink & drive (run a tour of any Trauma One unit for a month to cure you, if you want that clarified). Calm down behind the wheel - there's more time than you think, unless you like waking up in ICU hooked up like a science project for overworked staff.

But that's reflexive to say after over a decade as a rural EMS agency volunteer. Life happens. If it means you'll dash through a metal detector doorway in a real emergency while carrying, it probably won't be the end of the world as long as you can speak coherently and aren't under the influence of anything. . .

I've overlooked a stop sign and been lit up! The cop and I had a good-natured discussion about paying attention and I was on my way. I'd never, ever mock a working cop. I'd never treat one like a JBT, no matter what - it's a no-win, and you'll just end up finding out those new cuffs really won't stretch with a little time.

Are there cops I treat like sweating dynamite, no matter what? Yep.

Just like there are some CCW folks who've demonstrated they barely remember which way to hold their handgun at the range.

Everybody gets courtesy and calm and it's just another day.

I assume that everyone is armed. My life depends on that attitude.

Don't assume that I am an a## because I move cautiously and speak to you in a way that you may not appreciate. If I have stopped you, all I know about you, at that moment, is that you have broken the law. I am fully visible and identifiable as a police officer and my weapon is holstered. You are unidentified, partially concealed and your weapon may be pointed right at me. I am taking all of the risks, so be patient and cooperative while I try to determine if you present a danger to me.

Whether you tell me you have a permit, or not, is up to you. If you are going to need to reach into a concealed area(glove compartment/center console) where a weapon or ammo is stored, make me aware first. If I ask you to step out of your vehicle, inform me of your permit and carry status, before you exit the vehicle. If your clothing shifts and I am surprised we may have an easily avoidable misunderstanding.

If you are involved in a serious accident: Tell the first officer you see where any weapons or ammo/components are located. This includes weapons on your person, on your passengers, or stored in your vehicle. Also give the same information to the fire/emt personnel when they arrive. Weapons and ammo present additional safety hazards and need to be properly handled.

Nearly verbatim of what I overheard a CSP officer explaining to a newly relocated flatlander who "got nervous" when stopped for doing +80 on SB HWY 285 past Shawnee during an open house Rescue hosted a few years ago.

Her reply was to admit "the lack of streetlights up here" made her uncomfortable, too.

I've split a couple of six packs of Tommyknockers with the guy over the years. The look on his face when she drove off in her Beemer SUV was priceless. . .

OptimusPrime said:

It has gotten me out of some tickets, not some others. Courtesy and mutual safety make me inclined to tell up front, clearly and politely, with my hands visible and calmly on the top of the steering wheel.

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Not telling a police officer about my gun and CPL has gotten me out of some tickets, not some others.

blaisenguns said:

After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

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Nor should we feel the need to tell LEO about our lawful belongings/possessions/licenses.

Loc n Load said:

Had over three decades "on the job"....I always assumed everybody I came into contact with was armed. If a citizen informed me they were during a stop or whatever, I thanked them. I am not a big fan of having people hand over the carry gun for me to run the numbers. You extended me a courtesy, and f law breakers don't do that. So to me it is rather pointless to run the numbers, plus it involves a lot of gun swapping back and forth from akward positions, and I am not fond of that.
And as a TO ( trng officer) I didn't encourage rookies to take loaded guns from citizens.Because most of the time the officer was totally unfamiliar with the loaded weapon. Most cops are not "bullet heads", they carry a sidearm because it is a condition of their employment. So to assume that an officer is a weapon expert is not recommended. I was a L E firearms instructor for 25 years and know of what I speak.
You as an armed citizen need to know the laws and reg's in your jurisdiction. Most of us "on the job" know that we cannot respond fast enough to save your life or your families if there is imminent threat. And we want every law abiding citizen to be able to be safe. Get some competent trng, enhance your skills sets, and have a defensive mindset. Be safe.

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Your post is exactly why I won't inform a police officer about my gun, unless I am required to do so by law. If I inform them about my gun, I am not making anyone safer because the safest place for my gun is resting securely in it's holster with no one touching it. If I inform the police officer about my gun, all I am doing is offering an invitation to that officer to needlessly handle my gun, placing everyone at more risk from a negligent discharge than before.

I simply will not take the chance that they will want to needlessly handle my firearm in the hopes of getting out of the ticket that I 99% chance deserve to get anyway.

NavyLCDR said:

Nor should we feel the need to tell LEO about our lawful belongings/possessions/licenses.

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Absolutely! That other sentiment drives chills down my spine.

Shades of McCarthyism.

CCWers are KEWL

We wish all honest citizens carried.

I got stopped at a DUI checkpoint here in North Carolina.

I rolled down the window, and the cop asked me if I had anything to drink that night.

I said, "No sir."

He asked, "May I see your license." I handed him both my DL and my CHP.

He immediately said, "Oh, you have a good night, sir," and handed back to me my license and CHP.

blaisenguns said:

After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

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That is the LAST reason I would give for letting him know! I've gladly shown my permit everytime because it is, IMHO, it is safer for both of us.

"Nothing to hide" is BS.

Jim

Had my first traffic stop tonight since getting my CHP. I just did as instructed in the class. Window half way down, dome light on, hands on the wheel. He approached, asked me if I knew why he pulled me over. It was then that I informed him that I was CHP holder. He asked where my firearm was, I told him in the glove box and he just told me to go no where near it. Handed over my license and permit. No drama, respect on both sides and all was good.

I see no reason not to tell them. They know eventually when they run the tag, so its best to be honest from the start.

Disclaimer-this is my opinion and yours may vary.

Fryerpower said:

That is the LAST reason I would give for letting him know! I've gladly shown my permit everytime because it is, IMHO, it is safer for both of us.

"Nothing to hide" is BS.

Jim

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How is it safer for both of you?



Blog: Officer Daniel Harless Who Threatened CCW Holder Fired From Dept

"A Canton police officer who threatened a CCW permit holder in Ohio with death and violence has been fired."

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/officer-daniel-harless-who-threatened-ccw-holder-fired-from-dept/

and...now... this guy....



Could be back on the force:
Fired Canton officer Daniel Harless wins back his job

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x2105837634/Fired-Canton-officer-Daniel-Harless-wins-back-his-job

You have no idea if the officer who has stopped you is Barney Fife, Daniel Harless, or they could be one of the rest of the 99% of officers who are good, hard working people but may not know how to safely handle your particular firearm.

You carry a firearm for the 1 in a million chance that you might need it to defend yourself against a criminal. Why not take a simple action of keeping your legal possessions private (when not required by law to inform), to protect yourself from the possibility of encountering a bad police officer?

481 & tfosterjr

I like the sound of the post from the folks above. In NC we are required to inform, whether it's a traffic stop or an officer walking up to you.

I was walking with a lady once upon a time and she fell off the curb and sustained a facial injury. The police were there right away and took me far over to the side. Later the officer explained they had no way of knowing what had happened and that I may have injured her myself. Driving up to a situation they may have no idea of what is going on or who is good and who is bad. (I followed the ambulance to the hospital for a patchup and took the lady for a nice dinner later).

That's why I admire the officers who stop and walk up to cars. They are vulnerable and have no idea what they are about to encounter. That takes nerve. I don't know if I could do that kind of job.

I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.

I was involved in a traffic accident a while back, and while sitting in the highway patrolman's car he checked my license and asked if I was carrying.

Oops! I was consumed with paperwork, but I should have told him! I told him no, that it was in my car. He said ok, and no further comment was made of it.

Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

PS

PS: Ultrastick is the name of an RC airplane I used to fly...before golf came along...

Ultrastick said:

That's why I admire the officers who stop and walk up to cars. They are vulnerable and have no idea what they are about to encounter. That takes nerve. I don't know if I could do that kind of job.

I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.

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Just curious.... do you extend the same courtesy to the night clerk at the convenience store? You come into his/her store at night, they have no idea if you a good guy looking to buy a soda or pack of cigarettes or if you are going to rob them. Don't you think they would like to know you are a good guy who would be able to stop a violent crime from happening? What about a taxi driver if you are in their cab? Or the bank teller who might like to know that you are not there to rob the bank, but might be able to stop someone from robbing it.

Ultrastick said:

Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

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Or how about this - you are in a shall notify state and you just simply forget to tell the officer and now he comes back and asks you if you are carrying and adds on the ticket for failure to notify and now your fine just got doubled.

Or, in a no notification required state, the officer goes back to his car, and is notified that you have a CPL/CCW/CHP. Now the officer has just received information that you have had a background check performed and that you have committed no crimes that would revoke your permit. So now, instead of wondering why you didn't notify them when required by law (which is not the case in a no notification required state) they have absolutely no reason to ask you about a firearm upon their return because they have just received official verification that any firearm you might be carrying is 99% chance of being legal.

If the officer isn't put a little bit at ease from the fact that I pull over in a safe location for them, turn off my engine, turn on interior lights at night, roll down my window all the way, have at a minimum my driver's license in my hand on clear display, both hands on the steering wheel, and greet them with a polite greeting..... handing them a handgun license that may or may not be real and/or valid and telling them about a gun that they likely will never see and that has absolutely no bearing on the traffic stop just doesn't seem to add much to me.

Sorry NavyLCDR, I could not resist!

http://www.spreadshirt.com/officers-shirt-C3376A10530593

Stanwood...Airdale, target, or retired?

Jim

Ultrastick said:

I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.

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Um, why is that exactly? THey stopped you because you (supposedly) were breaking the law and traffic stops are the 2nd most dangerous enounters that police engage in.

Also, as other police responding to this thread have said...they have to treat *everyone* they stop as armed and dangerous.

Ultrastick said:

Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

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Why should I inform him of a legally carried firearm (not required in my state)? SHould I also inform him about my cell phone? My pepper spray?

And why would he suspect I am 'up to something else?' I have legally requested and received a permit to carry a firearm. If he gets uptight about that...or does not know how to handle that...then he has professional issues he needs to deal with and not take them out on a citizen acting in compliance with the law. If he abuses my civil rights just because I am legally carrying a firearm, I will be polite and compliant and then head to the police station and file a complaint.

Only been stopped once while carrying, and it was a non-issue. Basically I was coming home really late from work and it was a drunk-check stop. Warning to be careful and sent on my way. My pistol was in full view the whole time, and the second officer just hung out and BS'd with me, just asked me to keep my hands on the wheel.

I bought a rifle once from a guy that turned out to be an FBI agent, on-duty, in his office. I told him I had a permit and was wearing a .45, and I thought he was gonna shake my hand and buy me lunch. Said he was glad to hear I was "one of the good guys", and that more of us are needed. Blew my mind. Got a nice little Winchester .44 carbine out of the deal too, I call it Thumper.

9MMare said:

And why would he suspect I am 'up to something else?'

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Re-Read his post you responded to:
"Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license"

Fryerpower said:

Sorry NavyLCDR, I could not resist!

http://www.spreadshirt.com/officers-shirt-C3376A10530593

Stanwood...Airdale, target, or retired?

Jim

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Aviation Maintenance....

9MMare said:

Um, why is that exactly? THey stopped you because you (supposedly) were breaking the law and traffic stops are the 2nd most dangerous enounters that police engage in.

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Sometimes police stop every vehicle on a particular stretch of road, looking for DUI candidates. Sometimes these situations are called "traffic checks."