How big of Faux Pas is taping down the grip safety on a 1911?

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CmdrSlander

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EDIT: 2/3/13, 10:03 PM: I did some work on my grips to slim them down to get the same effect as taping down the grip safety, and proceeded to untape it.

I tried it because I had some spare electrical tape and it actually felt really nice, the pistol just fits my hand better. I'm not concerned about safety (unless it is going to break the gun or make it explode) because the pistol in question exclusively a range gun, so, from a standpoint of "firearms etiquette" and accepted norms how bad is taping down the grip safety on an M1911?

It may seem silly but I do laugh (on the inside) at people with badly sporterized guns or tapco-screwed chicoms and I don't want to be guilt of the handgunner's equivalent of a such a sin against a classic firearm, but it feels really nice.
 
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If it feels good, do it who cares what other people think. The grip safety was an Army request/requirement anyway, not part of Browning's original design.

Now that you've joined the dark side, maybe you won't be so quick to laugh at people who enjoy their guns the way they like. ;)
 
It's my understanding that one of the reasons 1911's need grip safeties is that the weight of their metal triggers (particularly in un-skeletonized and long versions) combined with the non-pivoting trigger design makes a discharge from a butt-down/barrel up drop fairly likely if there's no grip safety. IOW, if dropped butt-first, the inertial of the trigger may be enough for it to pull itself.

At least that is what I've been told. Maybe you're not worried about that, but a muzzle-up drop discharge, even on a range gun, sounds really bad to me. Consider whether your trigger is of the kind that could bring in that risk.
 
Why would it feel any different then how it feels when you have a normal firing grip and it is depressed normally by your hand???

Personally, myself & I would not do it, because:
1. It simply makes no difference in how it feels if you are gripping the gun properly in the first place.

2. Should you have a range safety officer who sees it?
You will probably be ask to leave.

3. If you have an ND with a deactivated safety device and injure someone, there will be all kinds of hell to pay too.

rc
 
Unistat said:
If it feels good, do it who cares what other people think. The grip safety was an Army request/requirement anyway, not part of Browning's original design.

Now that you've joined the dark side, maybe you won't be so quick to laugh at people who enjoy their guns the way they like. ;)
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I just don't like to see nice guns butchered, especially if they can't be replaced, but I suppose this really isn't a permanent modification (it is TAPE after all).

Also, I think you have that backwards, the M1910 had a grip safety and NO manual safety , JMB believed that was sufficient (similar to what Glock would contend 80 years later when he created the safe action trigger), but the army demanded a manual safety. The military just wasn't ready.

Here is a picture of the prototype, called the "M1910" by some, not the lack of a manual safety:
Colt_M1910_Pistol_IMAGE_FILE.gif
 
rcmodel said:
Why would it feel any different then how it feels when you have a normal firing grip and it is depressed normally by your hand???

Personally, myself & I would not do it, because:
1. It simply makes no difference in how it feels if you are gripping the gun properly in the first place.

2. Should you have a range safety officer who sees it?
You will probably be ask to leave.

3. If you have an ND with a deactivated safety device and injure someone, there will be all kinds of hell to pay too.

rc
Click to expand...
RE: Issue No. 1
It does if you have smaller hands, it allows me to get a better grip because it effectively narrows the circumference of the grip. Also my dad, who is and older gentleman, has trouble fully depressing the grip safety and he shoots this pistol (it is my 9mm M1911, it has less recoil which is good for him) a lot.

The others are totally valid. Except perhaps the range officer one... I've seen pictures and heard of IPSC shooters who swear by either mechanically deactivating or taping up their grip safeties, and when Delta still carried M1911s they often taped down the grip safeties, though that was because sand and grit could get in their fairly loose (they were 1940s vintage pistols) backstraps/mainsprings and cause the safety to fail to fully disengage when they needed to fire the pistol. I'm just saying I'm not the first and it isn't crazy...
 
There was a time when pinning the grip safety was a somewhat common modification. When folks first started with all the high grips stuff, they found that they sometimes had problems properly depressing the grip safety. The newer safeties with the "bump" came about as a solution to the problem.

Defeating any safety on a handgun that may be used in self defense is a poor decision. There's no need to give opposing lawyers anymore ammunition than they already have.

From a safety aspect, I suppose one could get a 1911 with a pinned/taped grip safety to fire if it were one without the firing pin block of the Series 80 design. But, I'm sure someone could figure out how to drop/kick/hammer almost any handgun with it's passive and or active safeties engaged and get it to fire.
 
jeepnik said:
There was a time when pinning the grip safety was a somewhat common modification. When folks first started with all the high grips stuff, they found that they sometimes had problems properly depressing the grip safety. The newer safeties with the "bump" came about as a solution to the problem.

Defeating any safety on a handgun that may be used in self defense is a poor decision. There's no need to give opposing lawyers anymore ammunition than they already have.

From a safety aspect, I suppose one could get a 1911 with a pinned/taped grip safety to fire if it were one without the firing pin block of the Series 80 design. But, I'm sure someone could figure out how to drop/kick/hammer almost any handgun with it's passive and or active safeties engaged and get it to fire.
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I would never, ever do this to and HD/SD gun, this 1911 is specifically a range toy and sits in my safe unloaded, so I would never in any foreseeable circumstance grab it for defense.
 
How big of Faux Pas is taping down the grip safety on a 1911?
Click to expand...

Not much. IMHO, it's a stupid "safety" since it only works as long as nobody touches the gun. Like a warranty on tires that's only valid as long as you don't drive the car.

Taping it down might set off a deluge of insane responses, so the easy way is just to adjust (BEND) the leaf of the sear spring that holds the grip safety up so the weight is not noticable anymore. Basically the same s taping it down but no external visible evidence. That's what I do on mine. The safety is still operational, just not annoying.

As stated above: never modify anything on a carry/defense weapon or some lawyer will be screaming "HAIR TRIGGER" and a jury full of morons will be nodding their heads....
 
I can't imagine it being any more of a Faux Pas than this.
 
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I've never seen that idea before...holster a pistol onto the butt of the rifle. Not sure if that's a good idea or not...
 
I don't mess with safety devices on firearms.

I like the Ruger SR pistols but not mag disconnects, but I'm not removing the mag disconnect so I'm not buying a Ruger SR.

If you don't like the thumb safety maybe try a different design? Grips (as suggested). Or a different big metal 45 design.
 
breakingcontact said:
I don't mess with safety devices on firearms.

I like the Ruger SR pistols but not mag disconnects, but I'm not removing the mag disconnect so I'm not buying a Ruger SR.

If you don't like the thumb safety maybe try a different design? Grips (as suggested). Or a different big metal 45 design.
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I love the thumb safety, my problem is with the GRIP safety on this particular gun which is GI style. A modernized M1911 with a high ride beavertail fits me fine but I don't want to invest that much (cost of safety plus fitting) into a fairly cheap M1911 clone from the far east.
 
If it's a range only gun, I see no problem with it. I have deactivated the grip safety on my IZH-35M and it has a lighter trigger than a 1911. It also has a manual safety which I've never engaged. I've never had a ND. I don't believe grip safeties make that much difference in terms of preventing ND's anyway.

If you're comfortable with Glock, why wouldn't you be comfortable with a Series 70 *range-only* gun with no safeties?

Totally agree about self-defense aspects; that's a no-no to defeat any safety features. Same thing applies to competition; a lot of them don't allow you to defeat safety devices.
 
Not much. IMHO, it's a stupid "safety" since it only works as long as nobody touches the gun.
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Unless it's taped or pinned down and you drop it and it lands muzzle up...which it's more likely to do than landing muzzle down. Then it could become a pretty serious matter.

ATLDave nailed it.

To wit:

It's my understanding that one of the reasons 1911's need grip safeties is that the weight of their metal triggers (particularly in un-skeletonized and long versions) combined with the non-pivoting trigger design makes a discharge from a butt-down/barrel up drop fairly likely if there's no grip safety. IOW, if dropped butt-first, the inertial of the trigger may be enough for it to pull itself.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't get rattled if a manual safety inadvertently gets wiped off in the holster during the course of the day. However, I'm a stickler about that grip safety, gravity being always present and unrelenting.

Of course, each may roll the dice as each sees fit.
 
Not much. IMHO, it's a stupid "safety" since it only works as long as nobody touches the gun.
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Obviously you are one of the non-believers who either doesn't understand the 1911 design.
Or who has never fumbled a fast draw with a 1911 just as you swiped the thumb safety off and threw it 10-15 feet down range tumbling end over end.

As it flies down range in slow motion, tumbling end over end?
You will be praying the grip safety works as God, John Browning, and the war department intended!

Been there, done that, and got the special event T-Shirt.

BTW: It did work as intended.

rc
 
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rcmodel said:
Obviously you are one of the non-believers who either doesn't understand the 1911 design.
Or who has never fumbled a fast draw with a 1911 just as you swiped the thumb safety off and threw it 10-15 feet down range tumbling end over end.

As it flies down range in slow motion, tumbling end over end?
You will be praying the grip safety works as God, John Browning, and the war department intended!

Been there, done that, and got the special event T-Shirt.

BTW: It did work as intended.

rc
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I don't think JMB intended it to have a grip safety.
 
Lets not start that argument again, please.

There are 23, 30 page threads about it already.

rc
 
I dont understand the intricacies of gun design like some of you all. So an M&P or glock is drop safe due to internal safeties whereas its the backstrap safety on a 1911 that makes it "drop safe"? How about on XD pistols?
 
in the '70s-'80s pinning the grip safety was the hot setup for the 1911- my dad has carried his with a pinned safety for about 30 years now.

*I* don't like it, but it doesn't bother him a bit.
 
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