When did our standard mags become "high cap".?

Say what you will. It doesn't change a thing.

Yeah, preaching to the choir.

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if the 'beta' mags and 33rd Glock mags went away. They weren't designed to be used in semiauto's anyway. But when they want to cut down the designed capacity of say, my CZ P01 with 14rd mag, I get upset.

Hey, let's drop their beloved Prius engine down to 50hp, see how they like that.

When standard rifles became "high-powered rifles", and mags are "clips", and when every semi-auto AR/AK are called "assault rifles"...

Personally I wouldn't shed a tear if the 'beta' mags and 33rd Glock mags went away. They weren't designed to be used in semiauto's anyway.

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Really? I can see an argument for the 33 Glock mag being designed for the Glock 18, but the Beta mag has no such supporting argument.
33 round Glock mags were designed to function in semi autos, so even the G18 argument falls short.

Droid noob said:

I'm so tired of seeing our own people referring to the standard mags, that ship with guns, high capacity.

Everywhere there being sold, I keep hearing "high cap mags". We are adopting the lefts own language here.

These are standard mags people. NY and California have low capacity mags.

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it is not just 'high capacity magazines' where the anti's language is being used more. It is on many things involving gun rights and gun control.

We need to make a collective effort to not make their words...THE words...that get used to classify anything to do with the gun rights issue.

It is very important in a PR strategy. Which is what shifts the middle...which we need.

The whole shift of 'the gun show loophole' to 'Universal Background checks' is one example.

They are trying to even shift the words 'gun control' to 'gun safety'. We just can not let that happen and hope to stay ahead in the war of words.

Heck, Brady even officially shifted its name from 'Handgun Control Inc' to "The Brady Campaign to Prevent gun violence' is another example of the war of words. It is why Bloomies organization is called "Mayors against illegal guns' and this whole new emerging "Demand a Plan" crap.

We are letting them win the war on the PR front, which will cost us in the end.

It is why whenever I now speak to an anti, I remind them that "Gun Rights equals Civil Rights".

Oh. And dont forget the new...Assault bullets.

In the 1980's when the wonder-nines became popular, gun writers described the magazines as high capacity, in comparison to the low capacity of 6 round revolvers that were popular with police and civilians at the time. I know someone is going to ask for references. I don't have any other than I lived through that time and remember it. Next time you are at a big gun show, see if you can find old issues of Guns & Ammo from the 80's, read reviews for Beretta, Sig, and Glock, and you will see what I am talking about is true.

They were hi-caps before they were standard. The Browning Hi-Power is mostly what introduced double-stack pistol mags and a capacity higher than 8-rounds or so. Moving further along until double-stacks became ubiquitous, compared to the 1911 they WERE hi-capacity magazines and that was a selling point.

Nowadays since double-stack guns have been the defacto standard for 20+ years we can get away with terming them standard capacity mags, but from a historical standpoint calling them hi-capacity magazines isn't inaccurate.

Not that I'm arguing your point that we should call them standard capacity, just that you seem to indicate that the anti's invented the term "hi-cap", when in reality its the other way around. That's always been around and we're stuck trying to refine the term to standard capacity.

Oh. And dont forget the new...Assault bullets.

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And I've also seen "assault clip" when referring to a "high-cap magazine"... Gag.

Sorry, you have to blame this one on gun writers in the 80s.

33 round Glock mags were designed to function in semi autos, so even the G18 argument falls short.

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The 33rd was designed for the G18 which is select fire. It can certainly be used in other models but not originally intended for them.

When they became high powered magazines as well

Hey all,
I'm new to the forum but not new to firearms. The problem that we are facing is the war on words, and we are losing. What was once a selling point has now been demonized by the left. High caps are now assult clips (they don't even know the difference between clips and mags). Accuracy defined as MOA or sub MOA is now being shown how someone can kill at extreme ranges by "Snipers". And the majority of our fence riding citizens ARE affected by this. Why? Because they are bombarded by it everyday. All they see on the news now is killing after killing. You don't think the liberal news media plan that? It's easy to find shootings across the country and choose one that involved one of the "Devils Tools", make it a national story, and play it for a few days furthering the leftist cause. Our problem is we are constantly on the defensive. Which by definition means we are in trouble. You cannot gain ground by defending. You have to attack to gain ground. Oh no. I said the "A" word. Our biggest ally in the news media used to be Fox. But even now some of them are jumping on the uninformed bandwagon. We shooters know the truth. What will strengthen our cause the most is bringing new people into the shooting sports. We defeat the left with education. We educate the new people to what it really means to be a gun owner. And by doing so take one more person off the peverbial fence. When we sit on a message board and gripe about what's going on to people who already agree with us, what are we really accomplishing? Just my 2 cents. I'd offer more but Uncle Sam is getting most of it to wage his war on us.

When the gubment said they were...

We have no one to blame but ourselves. I don't have the time to go back and search thread by thread and copy and paste to prove my point but it hasn't been that long since many here touted the high capacity of their chosen handgun, usually the Austrian offerings, as a "mine is bigger than yours therefore it must be better" argument. How many threads have you read discussing caliber vs capacity or other such discussion? And yes, those 33 rounds mags that hang way down past the grip are pretty ridiculous, not to mention the "snail mags". I think the term is "mall ninja". So yeah, we did this to ourselves.

As for the "war of words", we have lost that battle. Tomorrow Obama makes a three state anti-gun tour and will get more media coverage than Kim Kardashian at a singles bar. Meanwhile we stage these little protest rallies here and there with no consitent message, pitifull turnout and almost no advertising or media coverage.

Yeah, we're losing.

Hey, let's drop their beloved Prius engine down to 50hp, see how they like that.

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This is the kind of thinking we can't afford. Don't just assume that everyone follows a general trend or stereotype. My father, who is a staunch 2A supporter drives a Prius because he puts about 45,000 miles per year on his car so getting 60mpg adds up and it means he can save more money to spend on ammo.

Let's be careful with our words so as to not alienate our brethren. It goes along with not making this a political party line argument even though, generally a Republican is more likely to support 2A than a Democrat. We need to be inclusive here.

They aren't even "high capacity" anymore. Now they are "assault magazines" :banghead:

Funny thing is when Obama goes on that three state rally, he will be protected by men with real sniper rifles, real assult weapons, and high capacity mags. When he and Feinstein decide to give up that protection I'll.....still keep mine.

They became "high-capacity" when the left's language required an amplified connotation to bolster their argument. One usually speaks in logical, rational denotation, but this technique is used by anyone on any side of an argument during a frothy emotional appeal.

Normal logical and linear arguments using simple concrete terms are less colorful and have generally less impact on the hyper-emotional, technically ignorant.

It is immensely important how we make our points and the image we put across. We have all experienced poorly constructed arguments based on emotion, and we have all experienced serious well-put arguments based on facts. Take your pick and be the best example of our side of the argument you can be.

Here is some new verbiage from the left "assault bullets"

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...thering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/

PRM said:

Here is some new verbiage from the left "assault bullets"

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...thering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/

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Isn't that the best? They call assault weapons and assault magazines those names because the military uses them. Well the military uses FMJ's, not hollow points. But hollow points are the "assault bullets." They broke their own asinine logic.

I've stopped falling into that hi-cap trap. I now use the term "design capacity" when I mean the number of rounds a pistol or rifle was originally spec'd to carry. For those that have two design capacities, one being a round or to more than the other, it's still just design capacity, for me.

Let the antis call things what they will, just answer with a correct term. That disarms them and shifts control of the debate.

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