I want a HIGH capacity ASSAULT rifle!

[FNFiveSeven]

Have I gone mad, or has the entire gun culture just made the final step into liberal wussification? What is all this garbage I keep hearing about how it's not a "high capacity" magazine ban, but a ban on "standard capacity" mags? It's not an assault rifle, it's a sport utility rifle?!!?

Damn it, this is not the right way to go about fighting the anti-gun forces. They're not only controlling the guns you buy and how you buy them, now they're telling you what to call them!

By saying that you only want to have the right to own "standard capacity" magazines, you ARE COMPROMISING your position and effectively admitting that you don't want "high capacity" magazines, because high capacity magazines are "bad." If you don't think that a 100 rd Beta-C mag is high cap, then you are just as full of it as Feinstein. I for one do not want any compromise, I want to own HIGH capacity magazines.

I also want to own Assault Rifles because they are effective when it comes to fighting PEOPLE. That's right. Nothing wrong with that. The moment you start saying you don't want an assault rifle, and you just want your "sport utility" rifle, you might as well line up with all the other anti-gunners and spout off how you only need guns for "hunting" and "sporting" purposes.

I want cop-killer bullets too. Why? For killing bad cops and other armored cirtters, should the need arise. The police aren't always the good guys... just ask the german jews in 1940.

I can't think of anything more effective at killing bad cops than an ASSUALT rifle, with a HIGH CAPACITY magazine, loaded with COP KILLER/ARMOR PIERCING ammunition. And if you aren't willing to admit that, then you've already lost the fight.

At least HK's got it right: In a world of compromise, some don't. Don't yield to the liberals. Don't let them de facto strip you of your 1st amendment rights along with your 2nd amendment rights.

 

[Mark Tyson]

That's very poor marketing. The antis are succeeding because they engage in good marketing. If we all listened to you we would scare the hell out of the general public, making it much easier for ultimate confiscation.

"Yes, I am fighting for my right to own cop killer ammunition!" Come on now. Think about it.

edited to add: You do have a point about not calling them sport utility rifles, implying that guns are for sport and recreational use.

 

[26point2]

"I can't think of anything more effective at killing bad cops than an ASSUALT rifle, with a HIGH CAPACITY magazine, loaded with COP KILLER/ARMOR PIERCING ammunition. And if you aren't willing to admit that, then you've already lost the fight. "

Wow...you just got every LEO's attention...good luck..

C

 

[spacemanspiff]

throw in a derogatory racial comment and state how 'dem women been gettin all uppity since we allowed them to vote!' and this thread would be complete.

oh yeah, also need to say something about how your god is better than our god.

 

[artherd]

By saying that you only want to have the right to own "standard capacity" magazines, you ARE COMPROMISING your position and effectively admitting that you don't want "high capacity" magazines, because high capacity magazines are "bad." If you don't think that a 100 rd Beta-C mag is high cap, then you are just as full of it as Feinstein. I for one do not want any compromise, I want to own HIGH capacity magazines.

I think a BetaC is standard. 30 rounders are 'low' capacity

I think a 1,000round belt is standard on an M2HB (and on a Skrike AR upper too, different rounds of course!)

The thing is, there exists no 'high' capacity magazine in my eyes.

Is it an "assault" rifle? No, it's just a GOOD rifle. I don't see the need to restrict it to either ASSAULTS, or SPORTS AND UTILITY. It's good for both. It's a tool.


I like Homeland Defense Rifle. Because that's what it is, first and foremost. Has a secondary function to provide me food and amusement.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Mark

The way I see it, the antis have been using "marketing" to fool people into siding with them on issues the average joe doesn't understand. I really don't want to sink to their level, this isn't the time for a "fight fire with fire" type defense. Speaking the truth, plain and simple, is the only way you can ensure absolute victory, forever.

26Point,

The cops aren't going to come and get me. The ATF isn't watching this site, niether of those groups care enough to spy on us here at THR. And even if they did, so what, are they going to arrest me for bad thoughts? I hope so... winning that lawsuit would pay for my retirement early.

 

[26point2]

I never said they were coming to get you...what I meant was the members on this forum who happen to be LEOs might give you some hard responses...guess I didn't make it too clear...judging from the respones to this thread, I was wrong..

 

[Jeff Thomas]

blackrazor, I have to respectfully disagree with you ... with passion. It isn't a question of sinking to their level. It is the simplicity of negotiation and diplomacy ... you don't smack people in the face when you're trying to bring them around to your point of view.

But, you do it your way, and many of the rest of us will do it our way. Frankly, I get a little kick out of the "won't compromise one inch" perspective. Since we've lost a lot of rights for the last 70 years, I would say that method has been a dismal failure. On the other hand, those "wimps" who are willing to compromise, and take state after state for CCW (for example), have been making progress against the anti-self defense zealots for 10 years.

It's like a football game. You can throw hail Mary passes all day, and get your butt kicked. Or, you can smartly advance up the field with better strategy, tactics and execution ... a few yards at a time.

We not only have a much better case (like, the truth) than the anti's ... but we are definitely smart enough to use their own tactics against them.

Regards from TX

 

[Edward429451]

If we all listened to you we would scare the hell out of the general public, making it much easier for ultimate confiscation.

Or the powers that be and their minions, making confiscation harder.

It may sound shocking...good. It's not about duck hunting. People should get real and speak the truth. Call a spade a spade. People would wake up some on both sides. Calling an assault rifle a sport utility rifle is like saying taxes are not theft. I want an assault rifle and I don't want to be robbed.

Semantics=Deception. They sugarcoat it for themselves: "for the children", "officer safety", "We're here to Help", and so on and demonize it for us: "Assault Rifles", "High Capacity", and on & on. Therein lies the deception as it fundementally changes the mindset and distracts from the truth when they teach (program) us to be PC in our speech.

I agree with blackrazor.

 

[M1911Owner]

Blackrazor, to respectfully take a different position, the term "standard capacity magazine" was discussed here or in TFL and adopted by many people here in order to take back the marketing high ground. The "antis" had shaped the argument by characterizing the magazines that were designed for the weapons as "high-capacity" magazines, since they had more than the 10 rounds that they had dictated as "plenty for any law-abiding citizen." We reframed the discussion by asserting that what they are calling "high capacity," and by implication only of interest to "dangerous gun nuts," are in fact the standard capacity magazines that the guns were designed for.

 

[capnrik]

It's just a rifle.

And not even a particularly remarkable rifle, at that. I have three AR15 based rifles. An SP1 in CAR15 configuration, another SP1 in 20" rifle config, and one in M4. They are just rifles.

My .30-06 is far more powerful and accurate. My 6mm Remington has way more good memories and my son's Ruger/Volquartson 10/22 is much more fun to shoot.

And I love my single action revolvers way more than all of them.

The AR15 is a rifle. Possessing one does not make you a terrorist. It doesn't make you a combat soldier. It doesn't even make you a rifleman.

It simply means that if the country needs militia, and you are up to the task, that you are already armed.

Nothing more.

This is my rifle. There are many like it.....

 

[DMK]

Speaking the truth, plain and simple, is the only way you can ensure absolute victory, forever.

The terms "assault weapon" and "high capacity magazine" are not the truth. They are terms, buzzwords if you will, created by those who wish to ban civilian ownership of military styled semi-automatic weapons. Their purpose is to elicit the pictures of full automatic weapons capable of spewing bullets into crowds of cowering women and children.


They are deceptive terms and if it weren't for gun control, they would not exist.

 

[HBK]

I hope the AWB expires so I can get me some standard capacity magazines instead of the limited capacity that are currently on the market. It would be nice to be able to buy a nice homeland defense rifle as well, with a multitude of standard capacity magazines. The anti-gun people are just so full of lies and innuendos. I wish they would all go to hell.

 

[Tamara]

blackrazor,

Have I gone mad, or has the entire gun culture just made the final step into liberal wussification? What is all this garbage I keep hearing about how it's not a "high capacity" magazine ban, but a ban on "standard capacity" mags? It's not an assault rifle, it's a sport utility rifle?!!?

Damn it, this is not the right way to go about fighting the anti-gun forces. They're not only controlling the guns you buy and how you buy them, now they're telling you what to call them!

Yes, you've gone mad.

A seventeen-round magazine for a Glock 17 is NOT a "high" capacity magazine. That is the normal capacity magazine that the gun was designed for; aka, a "standard capacity" magazine.

A ten-round magazine for a Glock 17 is properly referred to as a "10-round magazine", "low-cap magazine", "AWB-legal magazine", or (my personal favorite) a "gelded magazine."


It's sometimes hard to fight for freedom when half the folks allegedly on my side never bought a gun before the Brady Bill & the '89 or '94 AWB's, and live in California or NY/MA/NJ and therefore think all these goofy regulations are normal.

I also want to own Assault Rifles because they are effective when it comes to fighting PEOPLE. That's right. Nothing wrong with that. The moment you start saying you don't want an assault rifle, and you just want your "sport utility" rifle, you might as well line up with all the other anti-gunners and spout off how you only need guns for "hunting" and "sporting" purposes.

The only regulations keeping you from owning "Assault Rifles" (a technical term) are the NFA of '34, the GCA of '68, and the FOPA of '86. The Bush Ban of '89 and the AWB of '94 keep you from owning new "Assault Weapons." Didja catch the difference? "Assault RIFLE" is a technical term (selective fire, medium caliber rifle), while "Assault WEAPON" is a legal term meaning... well, whatever the powers-that-be want it to mean. Roger copy? My underfolder Norinco AKM/47S is not an "Assault Rifle", neither is it an "Assault Weapon", because no "Assault Weapons" were made in this country before '94 or in China before '89.


Lord, save me from my allies.

If you are planning on getting active, please at least get informed, first.


(To be absolutely technical, 'blackrazor', a "high capacity magazine" for a Glock 17 holds 33 rounds, not 17. )

 

[alan]

Blackrazor:

You lilely won't like the following, but then it's up to you.

ASSAULT RIFLES are SELECTIVE FIRE WEAPONS, CHAMBERED FOR INTERMDEIATE POWER CARTRIDGES, otherwise known as NFA or Class 3 items. What the anti's refer to as "assault weapons" are simply SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLES THAT OUTWARDLY RESEMBLE MILITARY ISSUE SMALL ARMS. Unfortunately, "our side" has fallen into the semantic trap built by the anti's. We certainly should have known better than to allow our enemies to choose the wording of the argument.

As for that "high cap foolishness, consider this. The Browning Hi- Power, otherwise known as the Browning 1935 Pistol was originally furnished with a 13 round magazine(s). The Belgian made pistols came with those magazines from day one. That was the FACTORY STANDARD MAGAZINE. It is the 10 round "bureaucrat specials" that are out of the ordinary, if you will, it is they that are the anomoly.

Pardon me for lecturing, no flame intended, it's just that I'm old, tired and somewhat bad tempered. The sloppy use of TECHNICAL TERMINOLOGY has always upset me. It still does, particularly when it's use gives our enemies ammunition.

 

[Wildalaska]

Lord, save me from my allies.

Ah Tam...you are just so...so....so...

Pithy!

WildtookthewordsrightoutofmymouthAlaska

 

[Tamara]

PS:

At least HK's got it right: In a world of compromise, some don't. Don't yield to the liberals. Don't let them de facto strip you of your 1st amendment rights

Actually, the slogan used to be (back before your time) "In A World Of Compromise, Some Men Don't."

Guess HK changed it in a compromise that let them yield to the liberals and give up their 1st Amendment rights.

 

[Logan5]

Heh, I want that Webly-Vickers automatic revolver that Walter Mitty had myself, so I guess we both have the same problem... It's actually just some horse???? someone made up.

Also, WARNING: If you talk a lot in public about killing cops, eventually you will play one on Law&Order: S.V.U. I think it's a law.

 

[c_yeager]

The terms "assault weapon" and "high capacity magazine" are not the truth. They are terms, buzzwords if you will, created by those who wish to ban civilian ownership of military styled semi-automatic weapons.

I disagree.

Long before the AWB had ever even seen the light of day we had "Assault Weapons" and "Hi-Cap magazines". These are words that WE the gun culture had invented. Just because the antis have twisted their meaning doesnt mean that we should shy away in fear.

 

[Tamara]

Long before the AWB had ever even seen the light of day we had "Assault Weapons" and "Hi-Cap magazines".

Oh, no doubt! (Well, actually, I don't remember any gun being referred to as an "assault weapon" before about '88 or so) I have a "high-cap magazine" for my AK, though: It's a Romanian drum mag that holds 75 rounds. All the rest of my AK mags are plain ol' normal-capacity non-gelded AK mags that hold 30 rounds apiece.

 

[Kodiak AK]

At least HK's got it right: In a world of compromise, some don't.

HK don't know jack....

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Speaking of the Browning HiPower, yes, I think that the 13 round magazine is a high capacity mag. As has been mentioned here, these terms *were* around before the AWB, and the BHP 13 round magazine is a prime example. Many countries adopted the double stack mag BHP because of it's "high capacity" 13 round mag. So I guess, the term "high capacity" is all relative. Nonetheless, in todays world, I would say that a 30 round mag is most likely to be considered a "high cap" magazine, and the optional 100 round drum is DEFINATELY a high cap mag. To say it's not is to dance around the truth.

But the point to me is, that if we say we want "standard cap mags" then we are in effect admitting we don't need "high cap" mags. Of course standard caps will be legal if high caps are, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Alan,

Yes! As far as me wanting to own assault rifles, yes, I want to own one, and I'm not referring to "semiautomatic" assault rifles. Now THERE is a contradiction in terms that should never be spoken. I say, select fire or bust!

P.S. that' HK poster is awesome.

P.P.S. I am informed, I just don't agree with backing off using PC language. When I say I want an assault rifle, I mean a real assault rifle, not a Klinton one.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

But the point to me is, that if we say we want "standard cap mags" then we are in effect admitting we don't need "high cap" mags. Of course standard caps will be legal if high caps are, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

I disagree. My buddy has a Glock. He also has 17 round mags and a 33 round mag for it. He also has the reduced capacity mags for rangework to save wear and tear on the standard capacity and high capacity mags. As mentioned above,

33 round glock mag = high capacity

17 round glock mag = standard capacity

10 round glock mag = reduced capacity (or whatever you want to call it)

Let's look at anatomy. The 33 round mag sticks out of the bottom of the magwell. It actually looks a bit silly.

The 17 round mag fits fine, and uses all the available space, as is logical. That's why it's called standard capacity. There is a mythical world where magazines are designed to be functional, and in this world 17 rounds of 9mm luger fits perfectly into a Glock. It's what you would use, so it makes sense to call it standard.

10 round mag is wasting perfectly good space in the magazine. On my CZ75 compact, I have a 10 round mag and the bottom of the mag is raised about one inch in order to reduce the capacity from 13 or 14 (I forget) to 10. That's why I call it "reduced capacity."

When I say "standard capacity" I mean "standard capacity." I just don't see how that implies that "high capacity" is undesirable. If I don't want "high capacity" then I will say I don't want "high capacity." If someone who is anti-gun tries to put words in my mouth, I will very quickly make the person feel more than a bit foolish. BTW, IMHO the high capacity 33 round mag is not worth it in a semi-auto other than for shock value (but to some, that is all the reason anyone needs ). Don't let the anti-gun word trickery control the discussion.

P.S. that' HK poster is awesome.

(Ppssssp! Look at the mag, specifically at the cartidges in the mag. Nice shiny brass looks good like that, huh? ) HTH.

 

[c_yeager]

As far as the Anti's are concerned that is the only "safe" way to load a mag. Look at it this way though, if the H&K can feed from that magazine id be pretty satisfied with its uncompromising reliability too.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

I know, that's what makes it so awesome! Heh, kinda reminds me of this movie... I forget the name, the dude on the cover is holding an AR15 (I think it was a shorty) and he had the magazine UPSIDE down (you could see the mag catch)! But then I realized, you can't put the mag in upside down... which is when I noticed it was actually a drawing/painting, not a photograph. Still, to draw it that way...

I see your point with respect to high cap vs. standard cap on the glocks, I'll admit that the 17 round mag is the "standard" size, of course no one would ever *want* a mag that holds less rounds than what fits flush with the grip. HOWEVER, making standard cap mags is, IMO, not good enough, I want to be sure the HIGH cap, 33 round (in the case of the glock) mags are still legal as well.