I want a HIGH capacity ASSAULT rifle!

[Beetle Bailey]

HOWEVER, making standard cap mags is, IMO, not good enough, I want to be sure the HIGH cap, 33 round (in the case of the glock) mags are still legal as well.

I agree . Even though I am not particularly interested in Glocks, and not particularly interested in 33 round mags for Glocks (CZ's are a different story ), I think the availability of the 33 round mags is a good sign. I think if we are at the point of being just a bit on the excessive side with regards to availability then we are in a good situation. There should be a few things out there that are readily available that I'm not interested in (like new 33 round Glock mags/ 75 round AK drums/ those lunch-box lookin' AR mags/ maybe some flamethrowers/ select-fire weapons/ etc.) to make me really feel like the situation is getting better.

 

[BamBam-31]

Hmm, I think the whole semantics angle comes mainly from the anti's side. "Assault weapon" and "Cop Killer" are buzzwords designed to instill in sheeple the inherent evils of certain types of firearms. When those work, they'll think up new ones to describe bolt action hunting rifles ("Sniper rifles"), shotguns ("Wife Killers"), .22's ("Child Killers"), etc., ad nauseum. Victory by attrition.

The move to correct "high capacity" to "standard capacity" is one intended to return the sheeple from their frenzied hyperbolic state to a more realistic view of firearms. "Cop Killer" and "Assault weapon" are two terms with crimes inherent in the title. Both should be changed to terms that more accurately describe mechanical function.

If your aim is to further the 2nd, then embracing anti terminology would be counterproductive. We are not trying to convince each other--we're trying to convince the guys in the middle. To them, "Cop Killer" is just plain bad.

 

[BluesBear]

Accuracy, Reliability - No Compromise

BluessorryIjustcouldn'tresistBear

 

[StuporDave]

Blackrazor,

At what point does a standard-capacity magazine become a high-capacity magazine?
You said that you considered the standard 13-round BHP mag to be hi-capacity. Ditto for the standard 30-round AK mag. What number of rounds in NOT hi-capacity and what is that number based on?

The standard mag for my 1911 is seven rounds. I also have 8 and 10 round magazines for it. For that particular gun you could say they are hi-cap mags.

Seems to me that the criteria for calling a magazine "high-capacity" is that it holds more rounds than the standard magazine supplied with the gun by the factory.

What is your criteria for calling a magazine "high-capacity"?

Dave

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

JEFF THOMAS IS RIGHT

For those who don't "Get It", there is a large group of people who are not pro and not anti. They are confused about the issue and scared that maybe we ARE a bunch of red-neck bubbas who are more worried about our testosterone than our protection.

They would be wrong in feeling that way, of course, but it is up to US to CONVINCE them. As Jeff Thomas said, slapping someone in the face is no way to win them over.

We need to portray ourselves as their Good Neighbor Next Door who is a regular guy and loves his / her country and family and takes seriously his / her role as a citizen in this Great Experiment called America.

I have had good success by being someone that is likeable and down-to-earth, and then when I invite a middle-of-the-road person or even someone who espouses "anti" opinions to come outside for a canoe trip, a camping trip and then a trip to range, they are not so defensive. I tell them the range day is a firearms safety briefing so they can help their kids be safe, etc. It wins them over by and large, and I don't ARGUE. Instead, I show our position as "the reasonable one".

Maybe you have different methods. For me, I like to WIN THEM OVER !!

Very Respectfully

 

[TechBrute]

throw in a derogatory racial comment and state how 'dem women been gettin all uppity since we allowed them to vote!' and this thread would be complete.

Bwahahahahahaha!!!

 

[alan]

Blackrazor:

In one post, in response to my observations, you noted the following: "Yes! As far as me wanting to own assault rifles, yes, I want to own one, and I'm not referring to "semiautomatic" assault rifles. Now THERE is a contradiction in terms that should never be spoken. I say, select fire or bust!"

What I object to is sloppy use of language, perhaps a hangover from my "injunearing" background. If you want to have selective fire weapons, real "assault rifles", go ahead and enjoy them.

This "semiautomatic assault rifle" is the construct of political and bureaucratic whores, no disrespect intentended toward honest whores. I submit that our side should refrain from playing the anti's game. He who composes the questions, to a large extent, controls the answers. Similarly with terminology, no??

In conclusion, regarding "assault rifles", years ago, the U.S. Military had one of it's own, in the person of the U.S. Carbine, M-2, that item being "a selective fire weapon, of rifle configuration, chambered for an intermediate power cartridge."

Best.

 

[Nate_m]

The magazine on the HK ad looks like the bullets are loaded backwards....I've never owned or fired an HK so I'm not sure....

 

[general]

I agree with CAPTAIN MIKE & Jeff Thomas .. win them over..
Render thier words harmless.....
Assault Weapon Ban becomes Semi-auto Ban or Cosmetic Ban
(makes you think of Mary Kay..?)
High-capacity Magazines becomes Standard capacity magazines
so forth and such with..
see this Thread for some definitive reason regarding emotion vs. intellect.
And yeah.. I've got a few 20 rounders for my Beretta... be prepared - it's a Boy Scout Motto.

 

[TamThompson]

I think Blackrazor's hearts in the right place, and he's preaching to the choir here. Just probably want to tone down the 'in-your-face-ness' in front of the anti's.

I honestly believe that we gun owners are the thin black line that keeps America from becoming even more of a police state than it already is.

Food for thought: I've been looking into lots of different third political parties, and one thing that really hit me hard is my reaction to the ones who not only support 2A, but who actively encourage citizens to own firearms. It makes me feel much more likely to trust them, since they trust me.

If you think about it, the fact that neither of the two major parties encourage citizens to own firearms is a bit chilling. Yes, the Reps tolerate us owning guns, but they don't actively encourage us to own them. You have to wonder what's in store if there's another terrorist attack on mainland America. I have a feeling it's not good, not good at all...

 

[Hornitos]

They're not only controlling the guns you buy and how you buy them, now they're telling you what to call them!

...

I want cop-killer bullets too.

 

[alan]

TamThompson:

A paraphrase of your comment might be the following, actually I believe that it is, rather than might be.

A government that does not trust it's citizens with whatever, likely does not deserve the trust of the citizens.

 

[Henry Bowman]

BlackRazor is right. I agree with him (or her), but our heart-felt belief is not ready for "prime time" or packaged for general consumption "on the street."

Those arguing "hi-cap vs. normal" and "assault rifle vs assault weapon" are missing the point.

I "need" these things because I may "need" to "mow down" a whole group with a "spray fire from the hip" (or whatever) whether the bad guys are mutant zombie bikers or blue helmets. I sincerely hope that I will never "need" to do any such thing. But we have the right to be able to, just in case.

 

[Kodiak AK]

Nate_m Your eyes do not decieve you . That was the 2K4 shot show catalouge.

 

[TamThompson]

Alan,
Yes. We're saying the same thing.

 

[Gewehr98]

Blackrazor, look a little closer.

See anything unusual about how those rounds are loaded in that HK's magazine? (A hint, how do you suppose they would feed when the mag was inserted into that pistol?)

Logan, are you telling us that the auto-revolver as mentioned in the Walter Mitty story doesn't exist? I could jump all over your statement if that's what you were intending to state...

I have tons of 30-round mags for my AK. They're standard capacity, as originally designed and manufactured for that weapon system. Same goes for the 20 and 30-round mags with my AR-15, and the 20-round mags for my M14NM - standard capacity.

It's sad that gun owners today are so heavily swayed by buzzwords as introduced to the media by the Feinsteins and Schumers that they take and use terms like "Assault Weapons" and "High Capacity" magazines as if they were the gospel truth given from on high.

 

[cooter]

ur uh,,black razer,,,

the mention,,,

The cops aren't going to come and get me. The ATF isn't watching this site, niether of those groups care enough to spy on us here at THR. And even if they did, so what, are they going to arrest me for bad thoughts? I hope so... winning that lawsuit would pay for my retirement early.

,,,,,sir,,while maybe not the atf right now,,but the gov bunch does have complete mastory of basicly all electronic communication mediums,,and if you ever do come under thier microscope,,(heaven forbid) your toast,,,


just one of the many reasons I say,,there will be no civil war ,,the deck is stacked in thier(gov.org) favor and most that rant and rave,,, have not a clue,,

 

[BluesBear]

Logan, are you telling us that the auto-revolver as mentioned in the Walter Mitty story doesn't exist? I could jump all over your statement if that's what you were intending to state...

I believe that's exactly what he was saying.

It was only a figment of the fantasy dreams of Walter Mitty. There was/is no Webley-Vickers revolver.
Webley is famous for handguns. Vickers is famous for Machine Guns. There is however, the Webley-Fosberry Automatic Revolver.

 

[Gewehr98]

Darn. Here I browse, looking for a pic I downloaded...

Of a Webley-Fosbery semiauto revolver. Maybe there's a website with one on it I can find.

A-Ha! Dean Speir has one on his website:

And as seen wielded by Sean Connery:

 

[FNFiveSeven]

Cooter,

That's what RSA (prime number) encryption if for. Go pick yourself up a copy of PGP for email, no one, and I mean NO ONE knows how to break RSA encryption.

Now I'm sure some guy here's going to come back with "but, the NSA, who knows what they might be able to do, they could break it". Perhaps they could, but they've never admitted it in the past, and for them to spill the beans about their ability to break RSA, it would have to be A BIG DEAL. We're talking top level national security threat, not your typical correspondance.

As far as the original argument... I see what you guys are saying. I almost agree, in many respects, I could consider a mid teens capacity mag for a pistol a "standard" capacity mag. HOWEVER, I still feel that I'm entitled to own a "HIGH capacity" mag, whatever it is that might be. It still seems to me that to ask for standard caps back is to give up on having high cap mags. The worst case scenario would be the anti gunners agree, give you back your 'standard" cap mags, but take away the high caps, whatever those are eventually agreed upon to be. The drums for the AK and ARs would almost certainly be considered high capacity, right? Even in the total abscence of any gun restrictions, a *reasonable* person would tell you that the great thing about the Beta-C mag is it's high capacity, right?!? It's all a slippery slope, and we've learned this lesson the hard way, time after time. You give the antis an inch, they walk all over you. You have to take the extreme stand now, there can be no compromise.

I agree that the "cop killer" label is an anti manufactured term and is complete BS. However, the term "armor piercing" is not... it is just descriptive. We need to have the guts to defend the possession of armor piercing ammuntion, and when somebody asks why, you simply say, "So I can defeat armor, what else would I need it for?"

 

[Logan5]

Oh boy... Umm, here's the James Thurber quote;

". . . "Perhaps this will refresh your memory." The District Attorney suddenly thrust a heavy automatic at the quiet figure on the witness stand. "Have you ever seen this before?'' Walter Mitty took the gun and examined it expertly. "This is my Webley-Vickers 50.80," ho said calmly. An excited buzz ran around the courtroom. The Judge rapped for order. "You are a crack shot with any sort of firearms, I believe?" said the District Attorney, insinuatingly. "Objection!" shouted Mitty's attorney. "We have shown that the defendant could not have fired the shot. We have shown that he wore his right arm in a sling on the night of the fourteenth of July." Walter Mitty raised his hand briefly and the bickering attorneys were stilled. "With any known make of gun," he said evenly, "I could have killed Gregory Fitzhurst at three hundred feet with my left hand." Pandemonium broke loose in the courtroom. A woman's scream rose above the bedlam and suddenly a lovely, dark-haired girl was in Walter Mitty's arms. The District Attorney struck at her savagely. Without rising from his chair, Mitty let the man have it on the point of the chin. "You miserable cur!" . . . "

And yeah, the Webley-Vickers 50.80 is meant to be a figment of an overactive and uninformed imagination. It's not, say, an AR15A2 Government Carbine, it's the Moonraker Laser when you're talking it up to your friends at the bar. I don't dispute the existance of the Webley-Fosbery; in fact I'd really like one, but the Webly-Vickers is an instructive example of how the uninformed think about things like ".500 S&W laser death ray headspace terminal magnums."

ETA: I was trying to be funny. Something like a Tec-9 is to an Assault Rifle what a bucket with eyeholes is to a suit of armor. They just shouldn't be in the same category in my opinion; I find it absurd.