IMR4227 vs. Lil Gun for heavy .357?

I've never used either one of those. But I think If I had to choose between them I would probably go with IMR-4227 just because of the feedback from others, and I think AA#9 is more expensive.

GS

never used lil gun but i really like 4227

Yes you can use H4227 data for IMR4227 as the current IMR4227 now manufactured is the old H4227..........H4227 is no longer made as such.

Never used 4227 or Lil Gun in 357, but I'm thinking 4227 powder is too slow to give top performance. That's my experience in 44 Mag anyway.

I won't use Li'll Gun in a 357mag for heavy loads. I've read that it has a really bad problem of flame cutting your frame with really heavy loads.
I've never used 4227 but I would choose it over Li'll Gun just because of that.

IMR4227 is a favorite powder of mine in .357 mag and .44 mag. It is my go to powder in .460 mag. It works very well in long piped revolvers and carbines. It does not give quite the velocity of H110/W296, but outta my guns it's just as accurate and is not as temperature sensitive. It can also be downloaded safely like 2400 and meters very well. I too heard the story that the new IMR4227 is the old H4227 and the old IMR4227 was discontinued....thus you could use H4227 data for it. When I e-mailed IMR/Hodgdon about it, they told me no. There is plenty of published data out there for it anyway. I too no longer use Lil' Gun in revolvers because of the excessive forcing cone erosion attributed to it. So pickin' IMR4227 over it for revolvers is a no brainer. Lil' Gun still works well in carbines chambered in handgun calibers tho.

Buck13 said:

How is 4227 for muzzle flash? I'm not real concerned about that, but you can imagine scenarios where it matters.

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4227 is slow powder so there is significant muzzle flash.

I do know for a fact that Freedom Arms warns against using Lil Gun in their revolvers because of forcing cone erosion and the high heat generated by the powder. For this reason alone I'll never buy any.

I know this isn't in regards to .357, but I thought I'd share an IMR 4227 experience for you.

I shoot .44 Mag with IMR 4227. I tried everything to get accuracy out of my SBH, and someone mentioned IMR 4227. With 22.0 grains and a 240 Keith bullet it is darn accurate out of the 5.5" barrel, and moves between 1300 and 1350 fps.

It has way less muzzle flash than 2400, and the recoil is a nice push vs. the whippy 2400 recoil. I like IMR 4227. A lot. It also shoots to the same POA/POI as 7 grains of Trail Boss and the same bullet out to 25 yards.

It is my understanding that IMR 4227 is not the same as H4227. And from load manuals I have read, the loading's are different between the two.

Tell you what, BUCK13. You will have an answer straight from the horses mouth in a few days. I sent an e-mail to Hodgdon asking if they were the same powder. I will fill you in when we get the answer.

Lil'Gun generates a lot of velocity and a lot of heat too. It will deliver higher velocities with less pressure than any other powder in it's burn rate zone but then again, there is the problem with forcing cones so be very careful if you do use it.

Since i can't be sure it won't damage my revolvers I decided to use Lil'Gun for heavy bullet .357 Magnum ammo shot only in my Carbine.

2 years ago I bought a pound of IMR4227 (the new version of H4227). I used it in my 125gn XTP loads. Got me about 1450FPS out of a 5 inch barrel, but I couldnt get past the smell. Big bowtie of flash from the forcing cone. Got to be the worse smelling power ever. Its just an OK powder, wouldnt buy more.

Get the 4227. I bought a can during the last scare, not much choice then, either. It was soon my favorite powder for lead in a 357. One day I was shooting 45 Colt loaded with a class II charge of 4227. It was definitely pushing my model 25 back. The guy next to me laid down his 45 acp and wanted to know what the heck I was shooting.

"Tell you what, BUCK13. You will have an answer straight from the horses mouth in a few days. I sent an e-mail to Hodgdon asking if they were the same powder. I will fill you in when we get the answer. "

I'd be interested in the answer also.
A few months ago i had the same question. every time i have called Hodgdon i get either of 2 different guys, both gentleman and nice to converse with. i was told at that time that the imr 4227 could be subbed for the H. Regardless, even with this "good to go" directly from the horse's mouth, doesn't good reloading savvy dictate that one should reduce a given load 5/10% when substituting a different component ?
i use the imr extensively in .30 cal carbine, .357 rifle, 32-20 rifle, & 30-30. good powder.

I love 4227 when using 215grn cast bullets in my 357 Max Contender (12") and Dan Wesson revolver (8"). Good velocities, accurate, and clean burning.

Buck13 said:

OK, Hodgdon was closed due to snow yesterday. Called them this morning and the support guy I spoke to (Mike? Wasn't focused on remembering his name) said that you could use the H4227 data for IMR4227 powder. I repeated the question "you can use the data interchangeably?" and he said yes.

I guess that means "yes."

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It was a tech named Mike that responded to my e-mail question about the same thing a few months back. I dunno if it's the same Mike or not, (I'll go back theu the old e-mails and see if I can find it) but at that time he told me the data was NOT interchangeable............***?:banghead:



Found it! Response was May 14th of last year.


Here was the question I put to them....

What's the deal with the two 4227s? I was told by one source that the new IMR4227 is the old H4227 renamed and that the old IMR4227 has been discontinued. Does this mean that the data provided by you in your free web based reloading data for H4227 is correct for the new IMR4227?

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Here is their response....

H4227 was discontinued about 3 years ago. It was/is not interchangeable with IMR4227. These two powders use different data.



Mike Daly

Customer Service Manager

Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powder

IMR Powder Company

Winchester Smokeless Propellants

GOEX Blackpowder

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It is not the same powder. Just as H4895 and IMR4985 are NOT the same.

What exactly are you shooting for in 357 loads that AA#9 wont do it? I believe they show about 1300fps with a 180gr and 1500fps with a 158 gr. Thats pretty darned smoking.

Lil gun burns physically hot. If you shoot a few rounds you will find your gun physically worn. I did not like how hot it made my 10mm's and 357 Maximums so I refuse to use it. This was before I read about Freedom Arm's experience.

4227 is a great powder and my standard for 357 Maximum.

Don't for get about Alliant's new Power Pro 300MP powder. I know that there is not much lterature out there on it but it appears to be very promising. Brian Pearce did a article on it a while back in Handloader and spoke very highly of it. Here is a pretty good write up some one did comparing 300MP with other popular powders in the .357 mag.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/267122-357-mag-158gr-study.html

Hope this helps.