New AR-15: Frequent Double-Feeds

Use good ammo.

Click to expand...

Colt is a top shelf AR it should run ANY ammo.

jerkface11 said:

Colt is a top shelf AR it should run ANY ammo.

Click to expand...

Well, apparently Bob's doesn't. Who knows, he may have an old worn out SP-1...

M

My SP1 runs on everything I feed it. But he said his is new so not a worn out SP1. I also doubt ammo type would cause a double feed. It almost has to be magazine related.

jerkface11 said:

Colt is a top shelf AR it should run ANY ammo.

Click to expand...

And I suppose it should run on ANY magazine, too? Bent feed lips, not a problem! A good rifle will work anyway, right?

Firearms, especially autoloading firearms, are, to various extents, at the mercy of the ammunition and magazine used in them.

Read through this, if you haven't seen it before. Pay particular attention to all of the malfunctions that occur with the cheap piece of crap ammo, and the 10,000 flawless rounds with Federal XM193.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

Wolf isn't crap ammo. It may not be high quality but it does RUN. There is no point in an expensive AR if it only eats expensive ammo. This sounds like a mag problem though.

There is no point in an expensive AR if it only eats expensive ammo.

Click to expand...

What's the point of a Ferrari?

So you're saying you'd pay more for a gun that's pickier about the ammo it shoots?

We seem to be overlooking the fact that, cheap low quality ammo or not, the magazine is probably the problem.

Any good AR will run on any good 5.56 or .223 ammo you put in it. If your magazine is GOOD. And if you don't run it dry as a bone or something silly like that.

QUOTE: So you're saying you'd pay more for a gun that's pickier about the ammo it shoots?

YES

Apparently we haven't beaten the Wolf ammo issue to death yet...

I own/shoot a few higher-end ARs. I like that they work fine and I want to keep them that way. Buy good ammo for your spaceguns folks. Save the steel for the guns you HATE...like AKs...LOL

M

So your high end AR's are so unreliable that if you dare to put steel cased ammo in them they just don't run?

So you're saying you'd pay more for a gun that's pickier about the ammo it shoots?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't drop $3,000 on a Wilson or Nighthawk and feed it Tula or Wolf, just as I wouldn't feed a $1,500+ precision rifle Tula, Wolf, or even Remington UMC...

Now, I would not say that a Colt is to the AR what Wilson or Nighthawk are to 1911s; I was merely using them as an example for high-end guns and what ammo I would (or rather wouldn't) use in them.

I wouldn't feed my precision guns any factory ammo. But that isn't because they wouldn't shoot it. But if your AR won't run steel cased ammo something is wrong with it.

jerkface11 said:

So your high end AR's are so unreliable that if you dare to put steel cased ammo in them they just don't run?

Click to expand...

I shoot the wundersteel out of my Kalashnikovs. I kinda chuckle at folks arriving late to the game attempting to rationalize shooting lesser quality ammo out of their ARs. Oh, didja know steel bullets will wear your barrels out faster?

Good luck

M

But if your AR won't run steel cased ammo something is wrong with it.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Unlike brass, after firing steel cases do not shrink very well to extract from chambers. Most of the time you won't have a problem, but in some guns you do.

He isn't having extraction problems. And since his gun is a colt it's chrome lined so that shouldn't be an issue at all.

And since his gun is a colt it's chrome lined so that shouldn't be an issue at all.

Click to expand...

Chrome lining helps, but it isn't a be-all--end-all solution. And you are right, he isn't having extraction issues. But let's get back on topic his ammo doesn't seem to be the problem to begin with so the steel vs. brass debate is out of place here.

Now, if we want to debate aluminum vs. polymer (as in magazines) then let's go for it.... I just think you got a dud for a pmag (rare, but does happen).

Or a bad mag catch. We won't know till he tries the other mags.

My apologies on my next off-topic statement, but the more I spend on this firearm board it seems like people arguing in threads do not, take the high road...

Anyway - back to the OP; clean it, lube it, shoot it!

jerkface11 said:

So your high end AR's are so unreliable that if you dare to put steel cased ammo in them they just don't run?

Click to expand...

No.

Would you mind stopping with the straw man arguments/troll?

We have a guy who is new to the AR, who may well not have lubed it properly, who is experiencing a malfunction that is usually the fault of the magazine, who is using cheap Russian steel case ammo. I don't care who made the AR, the standard recommendation is going to be to lube the BCG, use decent ammo, and use GOOD mags (and a different mag than the one that was double feeding). No need to turn this into a stupid brand war.

allaroundhunter said:

Not necessarily. Unlike brass, after firing steel cases do not shrink very well to extract from chambers. Most of the time you won't have a problem, but in some guns you do.

Click to expand...

There is a problem switching between brass and steel. Just shooting straight steel causes issues too?

I never shoot steel but lots of guys do including in AR15s. OP keep this thread updated. The guys here will help you out.

We seem to be overlooking the fact that, cheap low quality ammo or not, the magazine is probably the problem.

Any good AR will run on any good 5.56 or .223 ammo you put in it. If your magazine is GOOD. And if you don't run it dry as a bone or something silly like that.

Click to expand...

Warp has it right. I don't think anyone here would call Wolf top quality ammo, but I seriously doubt it has much if anything at all to do with the malfunctions the OP is having.

Assuming that the OP is using a newer Colt carbine such as a 6920, Wolf ammo shouldn't be an issue. Colt gases their rifles correctly to run with pretty much any half decent .223 or 5.56 ammo out there. The OP is having feed issues, which automatically points to magazine issues.

Also, a little more information here wouldn't hurt. What model gun does the OP have, and when was it made? What magazines was he using? Was the gun properly cleaned and lubed before it was put into use?

For a true double feed -- two live rounds one fully, the other partially out of the magazine -- its got to be a magazine issue or the OP has experienced something really weird and unique.

Perhaps he's confused Pro-Mags with Pmags?


Lots of folks mistakingly call a failure to extract -- fired empty still in the chamber, live round jammed in behind it trying to feed -- a double feed.

I'm of the opinion that if your gun fails to extract with steel cased ammo but does with brass cased ammo, blaming the ammo is ignoring the real issue -- your gun has no operating margin and I'd never trust it under harsh conditions. When I've seen this, its always been an out of spec extractor -- either gap between the hook and the bolt face too small to fully slip into the extraction groove, or the front of the hook was too fat, again preventing the hook from fully fitting into the groove.

I also believe that if you pay top dollar for a supposedly "match accurate" AR, feeding it Wolf kind of defeats the whole purpose as its 2 moa ammo in its best lots, but if it doesn't work with steel cased ammo, best to forget any delusions of having a battle or TEOTWAWKI ready weapon.

Okay, to summarize

Yes...I'm talking about feeding two live rounds at the same time.

Click to expand...

The mag I was using that produced the double-feeds is a 30-round PMAG. I had only put 20 rounds in each time. I loaded it three times - and had three double feeds.

Click to expand...

OP, please verify they are Magpul PMAGs and let us know once you try 2 or 3 more of them. If they are in fact PMAGS and not pro mags, I guess you just got a very very rare lemon, and I'd highly doubt you will have issues with other ones. They are very highly-regarded magazines.

And just for the testing phase, use better ammo. Once you know your gun runs, you can revert back to wolf or tula or herter's. I am of the opinion that your gun SHOULD run fine with steel cased ammo, but just for now, don't use it so that it can be ruled out as the culprit.

That's a good point. A lot of people who don't know any better than all polymer/plastic magazines are pmags, or that pro mags are pmags.

PMAG = Magpul PMAG, by name.