Tell me about H&K Pistols

You know man, I have been planning to start a similar thread. I'm interested in the HK45. Another member of the forum, who's opinion always seems to be rational and logical made a comment on another thread I started about the HK P7. He called it the myth of HK. I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but I'm going to invite him to participate in this one, as I am having the same issue you have, the price point. I love the gun, but $1000+ for a polymer gun seems really out of line, and I'm considering the XDm 5.25 as a result.

By the way, that price is too high for that gun.

For a "sub-compact", the SK really isn't much smaller than the, "full size" P2000.

I have one of each in .40. They're okay, but I would not pay $1,000 for either. Maybe they're more durable in 9mm, but shooting full power .40 will break parts, some catastrophically, in 7k-10k rounds. I've done it twice.

Decent guns but overpriced.

So do you guys have any experience with HK pistols?

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Yeah.
Because of their terrible customer service I wouldn't buy another HK if it did sell for a decent price.

In another thread, PabloJ posted,

After owning two expensive H&K pistols I finally realized the faux myth of Heckler & Koch greatness. Just couple of Mauser Werke employees that started making guns like G3 rifle in the 50s when West Germany was finally allowed to manufacture them. I no longer see reason to pay extra cash for their overpriced stuff. I don't give a .... if their handguns and submachine guns are carried by many (actually most if one takes project 69 weapon into consideration) elite military forces of the world.

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PabloJ, I've heard a lot of fanboy talk from HK owners that say how they are the end all, be all of guns. Your opinion seems to differ in general. Your posts usually are well thought out and well written, so I invite you to chime in on this thread and share your impressions of HK, as I have the same questions about their guns in general that the OP has.

PabloJ, I've heard a lot of fanboy talk from HK owners that say how they are the end all, be all of guns.

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You also hear the same thing about Glocks.

I own three Glocks, G19, G26, G33, G36 and owned a G17, and people have shot Glocks on my shooting range (about 19 guns I guess). EVERY Glock I've been in contact has malfunctioned.

So..........don't pay too much attention to what the "fanboys" say.

I recently purchased my first HK handgun, a used V3 P30 in 9mm. I got what I think was a decent deal for it, 980 bucks after taxes and fees and the gun came with 3 extra mags and a kydex holster. I had actually initially wanted the P2000sk but fell in love with the grip on the P30.

I'm far from an HK fanboy, but my impressions of them is that they build a pretty darned good pistol. Are they expensive? Heck yeah. Are they worth it? Only you can decide, it's your money. You certainly can get the job done with a cheaper handgun.

I probably wouldn't spend 1200 on the gun you're looking at though. Dealers around me were quoting 999 for a new V3 version.

I have owned both the USP Full-Size and Compact in .40, as well as the Full-Size in .45. I have a lot of love for these pistols, but (ironically perhaps) the high resale value made them too tempting not to trade when my eyes wandered elsewhere.

These days, it seems like a used USP (or perhaps a P2000) is the only way to get an H&K product at a reasonable price. As the others have mentioned, there just doesn't seem to be any particular reason to spend more unless an H&K product is what you really, really want. I have been jonesing for a USP Compact 9mm lately but I don't really need one; ultimately finding a good price on a used example will be the deciding factor.

While I've not shot any of my HK pistols enough to break anything, their customer support was helpful enough getting me the parts to convert a used early production USP from DAO to the "variant 1" DA/SA I preferred, prices seemed pretty reasonable too, but this was not a warranty issue.

I tend to agree they are overpriced after actually shooting them, nice guns but nowhere near twice a good as the competition.

You should buy one of those Zastava Tokarevs.

$230 gets you a battle proven pistol with excellent accuracy and reliability. It's not even big or clunky, but rather thin and svelt.

How can a pistol possibly be better than that? Why on earth pay $350 for a used Glock when you can get the same accuracy and reliability for $120 less? Waste of money for nothing.

And after all - its based on the 1911, which as everyone knows is the best gun ever invented. Its a win-win-win. The only way you can loose to buy anything else.

Seems like you are buying a name more than anything.

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Is this the same thing as a perceived difference between a $500 1911 and a big name 1911 at $4000? I suppose there is no difference in these guns either. Both work.

I think you answered your own question. If you doubt the quality or value then don't buy a HK. Stick with what you're comfortable with.

That's why they make different colors.

Sometimes when she saw me buy some guns or gun stuff that seemed a little overpriced, my Wife used to ask me,

"Do you really need this more expensive *********, or you just spending the money to impress the other kids at the range?"


Truth is, my least expensive Kimber is just as reliable and shoots just as accurately as my high dollar Kimbers.


Trying to impress the other kids can get expensive.

I've owned several HK's and they have all been 100% reliable, no excuses.
Not a fan boy, I like Glocks, Berettas and Sigs too.
I'm looking at P2000 9mm as my next.
I think the quality is worth the money.

I've owned a couple of HK pistols. Currently, my only ones are the USP45f and the P7. Comparing a German made HK to a Croatian XD isn't much of an apples-to-apples comparison for a few reasons.

For starters, you have to look at the culture of HK. They are a company that heavily invests in their workforce with the intentions of keeping those people around until they croak. They train their plant workers intensively prior to doing the actual job. This translates into a very high level of Quality Assurace & Quality Control that few other gun companies can even begin to approach. I don't know that HK has ever had to issue a recall on a firearm. Customer Service? Beats me, I've never had to use them, which is a bigger testament to the QA/QC that comes along with their products.

When you buy a German HK, you're getting burned on the currency exchange rate. Springfield is the sole proprietor of the HS2000 here in the US (yes, it is still called the HS2000 over in Croatia) and their deal allows them to avoid the crazy markup associated with the weak US dollar. Skilled labor in Germany is much more expensive than it is in Croatia. The German workforce also enjoys a long list of legal protections that make US labor Unions look pathetic. In other words, running a manufacturing facility in Germany isn't exactly child's play.

Feature-wise, HKs have cold hammer forged barrels with a service life of around 50,000 rounds. The steel they use is very high quality; they have a reputation for being extremely hard. In fact, refinishing an HK can be tough because the hardness of the steel doesn't always allow for an ideal finish. That's why you have extractors turning purple over time and you have the strange-looking slide stop levers. For some people, this is a deal-breaker for a gun of this price point, but most people don't buy an HK because they are pretty. For most HKs, you can have it your way when it comes to the trigger setup. I'd like to see them put out a new striker fired gun, but still, they offer a lot of versatility in their guns.

I don't own any $1,000 HKs, but I will point out that a price differential of $400 is what...a case of ammo? For someone on a budget who is new to shooting, that $400 may be a big deal. For someone who is a regular shooter, that $400 is a pittance for a gun that will be shot with any degree of regularity.

All that said, I carry Glocks. Heartless, cheap, ugly bricks with no soul, but they do the job and I don't have any emotional attachment to them.

For someone who is a regular shooter, that $400 is a pittance for a gun that will be shot with any degree of regularity.

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I am a regular shooter, and I take exception to this notion. $400 is twice my monthly car payment and almost half my rent. It is hardly a pittance under any circumstances, unless you are a sponsored competitive shooter or independently wealthy.

Cold hammer forged barrels are indeed a huge plus.

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Really? If you're absolutely certain they are ... in a way that will matter somehow to your shooting, then yes. For the vast majority of shooters, including winning pistol competitors, whatever rifling method the maker chose to employ will do just fine for FAR more than 50,000 rounds. FAR more. (If you Glock or xD, or M&P barrel is "shot out" at 50,000 rounds, demand a refund!)

You can buy a lot of really solid and reliable handguns these days. Many makers will provide a pistol that will do all you could ask of it for as long as you can keep pulling the trigger.

H&K's not different in that regard. No, their materials aren't far ahead of any of the other major players. No, their tolerances aren't dramatically tighter (without sacrificing reliability somehow). No, they won't run 100,000 rounds longer than their competition without parts breakage.

It boils down to this: If you really appreciate the combination of features their guns offer, and the gun feels comfortable in your hand, and the price isn't too far outside your budget, buy it and be happy. If any of the competition's guns offer something you like a bit more, buy that instead. There's no reason at all to get an HK -- because it's an HK -- if something else fits you better or works in a more appealing manner.

Personally, I look to what the winners are using in the types of competition I shoot for guidance when thinking about what features I favor in a handgun.

"Practical" or "action" or "defensive" pistol shooting is dominated (i.e.: fast times and highest accuracy) by lower bore-axis guns that are striker-fired. So I don't tend to even consider bulky old style DA/SA guns like Sigs or HKs at all.

In the end, all that matters is what you'll shoot fastest with the best hits. If that could be an HK, get it. If it isn't, don't buy the name.

Nearly all of my semi-auto handguns are 1911 pattern, other than rimfires. I own one single poly-pistol. It's an H&K USP Compact in 9mm, which I bought brand new in about 1996.

It has never failed to function. It has handled all kinds of hand loads, as well as factory ammunition including some gov't issue +P that my agency had in stock for Uzi SMGs at the time.

I'd never say other pistols cannot do the same of course. As said above, buy what you like and what fits your hand and budget. Be happy. I've been happy with my H&K. For a plastic gun, it's pretty nice.

I've owned a couple and find them to be very robust, accurate and reliable firearms. The one flaw, at least for me, are the triggers. Glock triggers are light years ahead as are m&p triggers. Some folks love the LEM's, but I have no experience with them.

Price is the thing that bothers a lot of folks,but 'expensive' is a very relative term. I found them to be great pistols provided you like the trigger.

I am a regular shooter, and I take exception to this notion. $400 is twice my monthly car payment and almost half my rent. It is hardly a pittance under any circumstances, unless you are a sponsored competitive shooter or independently wealthy.

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Your definition of "regular shooter" must be very, very different than mine. A case of 1,000 handgun rounds (to the tune of $400) would only last me a month. A month's worth of shooting and associated costs is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

They are worth the cash, I love my USP.
They are reliable, They will cycle anything. They can handle a steady diet of +p and +p+ without having to change springs more often. They are made to a higher standard then most firearms. JMO

Meaning no disrespect at all, but the phrases, "Made to a higher standard" and "In my opinion" are really very much at odds with each other.

A standard is a real, concrete thing. It isn't someone's opinion. It may be good or bad but it is a fixed, measurable aspect.

You wouldn't say, "this is constructed of 97% Iron, 2% Carbon, 0.75% Tungsten, 0.15% Molybdenum, and 0.1% Chromium, in my opinion." So you really shouldn't use the phrase "made to a higher standard" as a description of your opinion.

What standards does HK use for their handguns that exceeds in a valuable way the standards used by other manufacturers of service handguns?

My primary carry gun is a P2000sk in .40. I bought it new for $830 and it came with a .357 sig barrel as well. I love the gun but plan on changing it to a DAO as I think it's a much better option for CC. The gun is awesome, relatively low recoil and has been completely reliable. I generally carry the flush fit 9 round mags but have the 12 rounders with gap fill device as well. Was it worth the price? I'd say yes for those who can afford it but I wouldn't recommend one go broke trying to get one. I did pick up a used full size P2000 in great shape for $400 too but decided to sell it because it only gave me a little bit more barrel. Personally I think the P30 and HK45 are the best guns on the market but larger than what I want to carry. Given the price people pay for 1911's I can't see anybody judging one for paying over a grand on a HK45 as I have no doubt the latter is more reliable and durable than any 1911 ever run off an assembly line or made in a custom shop. Even if a 1911 could be as reliable/durable as a HK45 i'd take the extra capacity over the better accuracy any day for a real world handgun.