mljdeckard said:I don't know a lot about Weatherby rifles or cartridges, but I know that some guys seem to have this reverence for them, and I have no idea why. I knew one guy who said he had a regular rifle rechambered for a Weatherby cartridge. I asked him why, he said because they're better. I asked him how? Better accuracy? Better velocity? More polite? What is is about a Weatherby that would make it worth it to have a rifle re-barrelled?
As far as I can tell, they have the curved shoulder angle instead of a straight angle. Is that about it?
Don't get me wrong, I don't care if there is someone who wants to buy a gold-dipped rifle or prefers any given gun based on nothing more than pure superstition. Do whatever. This particular guy, he knew little about guns at all, and it didn't seem to me like he knew any reason at all whether the original cartridge wouldn't have done the job just fine. I honestly don't know if there is any reason to re-barrel a rifle 'just because it's a Weatherby'. This thread was the first time I was aware there was any advantage at all. (Even if it appears the competition has erased the advantage.) I guess I'm not old enough to remember what the big deal was.
Ok, so to get this advantage from the Wby, can you handload for it, or does it have to come from factory loads? Does the curved shoulder shape make case prep easier or more complicated?
There is no Weatherby advantage. It's simply another choice. You're over thinking this. The guy wanted a cool Weatherby round. /storyOk, so to get this advantage from the Wby,
I can't believe that with all the Weatherby fans that have posted no one has corrected the misperception that the Mark V bolt lift is 60 degrees -- it's 54 degrees
I'm not sure I'd trust a local gunsmith to get that double-radius shoulder right. Consider a Vanguard S2 if you want to save money over a Mark V. You may give up 50fps with the 2" shorter barrel, but the S2 is more accurate and has a better trigger than the Mark V.I can say as a big 25/06 fan, I have been looking at a 257 Weatherby as the ultimate step up from my 25/06's. Am I gaining much, no, but I have already committed to the 25 caliber, I am used to the idea of burning the barrel and so why not go to the natural limit?
I have not decided if I will buy a Weatherby rifle or just rechamber my Ruger #1. Probably the later as it will be cheaper to do.
When I first saw Weatherbys in the sixties, they were hands-down the flashiest and most appealing commercial rifles on the market. The marketing of the cartridge was successful, and Roy Weatherby filled a real market niche.
That said, I have never owned one and likely never will. The owner of the small SoCal gun store I frequented in the early sixties was contemptuous of the 9-lug bolt, and I have always wondered if 9 lugs really added anything to strength that was not accomplished by two lugs that were the equivalent in total size? It sounded good when Weatherby marketed it, but really, two lugs lapped in have every bit as much steel bearing the recoil as 9 -- and more if the 9 are not well lapped in. My then gunsmith said he had seen Weatherby rifles that had only 2-3 lugs with full bearing. That would not be reassuring, but I must say I never saw that with my own eyes; just repeating hearsay. I do know my first Mauser (a Santa Barbara) had lapped-in lugs with nearly total bearing when closed. I felt very confident they would hold the pressures I was exposing them to, and they have.
They are nice looking rifles that are used by wealthy hunters all over the globe, so they pretty much become a self-fulfilling prophecy regarding effectiveness.
I put about 4,000 or so rounds through mine. Toted it across many a mile of hill and mountain. I guess it will always be "Ol' Pet", to me.
Last time I shot it, I put three 180-grain bullets into 0.4 MOA, so it has a bit of life left in it.
That right there says it all. If it's your cup of tea then good on you, if it's not then there are a whole lotta choices. Variety, as they say, IS the spice.Different strokes for different folks...............
I am happy for you that you found a rifle and cartridge combination you love. I noticed you are from Finland and I am curious why you choose the Mark V over the excellent and beautiful Sako 85? I absolutely agree about high pressures in hot climates. I live where summer temps are frequently above 43C. I also think the Sako extractor and ejector is superior to the Weatherby's for dangerous game hunting.
The original post had a number of errors or inaccuracies in it.
1. The Weatherby ballistics are easily matched and exceeded with currently available components. I regularily see 3,600fps+ from my 24" bbl Vanguard in .257wbymag. w/100gr bullets. However, it does require using Norma brass, Federal 215 or Winchester LMR primers, and either H4831, IMR7828, or Reloader25. Most of the factory ammo is loaded with Norma MRP powder. Not a real secret.
2. The ammo has generally been loaded by Norma for Weatherby. Superior components and quality manufacture with Hornady bullets. Result; consistent, superior performance in the field.
3. Weatherby marketed and sold the rifles and ammo as a "system", with carefully and precisely manufactured ammo. Not the "regular gas" in a Chevy Malibu. More like racing fuel in a race prepped Corvett or Viper.
4. The double "ogee" or "radius" shoulder and neck was "unique" but had the effect of the 30deg-45deg neck of the "Ackley Improved" cases which indeed does limit case stretch.
5. The "free-bore" was to allow the bullet a longer "jump" to the lands to ease the pressure rise on the ammo loaded to the upper limits of allowable pressures with available powders/primers of the day (late '40's to mid '60's).
Only with the advent of better testing and materials were other cartridges such as the RUM's (I have one of those too, a Savage M110 in .300RUM, which oddly enough, Savage chose to use the "Weatherby free-bore" throat, rather than the much shorter Remington throat). Even with the ~15% increase in case capacity over the .300wby, it only gets about 80-120fps gain over the Weatherby. Ole Roy actually kinda knew what he was doing....
He never really intended to appeal to the mass market, but those well "heeled" enough to be willing to spend the extra $$$$ for the very best money could buy without becoming "purests" and "hobbyist" seeking the very last bit of performance just for performance sake. Exactly the audience he captured. ie: astronauts, politicians (as in Shah of Iran, King of Saudi Arabia), movie stars (ie: Roy Rodgers), ect. ect. ect.