What's the big deal about Weatherby cartridges?

[mljdeckard]

I don't know a lot about Weatherby rifles or cartridges, but I know that some guys seem to have this reverence for them, and I have no idea why. I knew one guy who said he had a regular rifle rechambered for a Weatherby cartridge. I asked him why, he said because they're better. I asked him how? Better accuracy? Better velocity? More polite? What is is about a Weatherby that would make it worth it to have a rifle re-barrelled?

As far as I can tell, they have the curved shoulder angle instead of a straight angle. Is that about it?

 

[mljdeckard]

And....merry Christmas everyone.

 

[MachIVshooter]

As far as I can tell, they have the curved shoulder angle instead of a straight angle. Is that about it?

High pressures with proprietary powders to achieve velocities you will never safely duplicate by handloading. In short, you can have their (dubious) performance edge, if you don't mind $3+/ea cartridges (and much more for the big ones).

Two things happened that really took a chunk out of Weatherby's market share:

1) Other companies introduced non-proprietary cartridges that were as good or better in performance, and handloader-friendly (namely the RUM family)

2) A lot of people realized that they couldn't shoot well enough to make use of the flatter trajectory, at least not to the point of justifying such expensive ammo and brutal recoil. Also that another 200 FPS didn't make the animal any more dead at any range.

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

Some people think that bigger, faster, more expensive is always better, but there is a point of diminishing returns. When I lived in Wisconsin 2 of my hunting buddies used Weatherbys and I used my Win Mod 70 in 30-06. My deer died as quickly as theirs did. We all reloaded. My 30-06 took 57gr of powder while the big W's took 70+ grains per shot. In the big woods we hunted shots were rarely more than 100 yds and I just couldn't see the praticality of using a 300 Wby in those circumstances. To me it was sort of like using a Lambourghini for your work commute in city traffic.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

same reason some buy a malibu and others buy a camero.

 

[jmr40]

I know that some guys seem to have this reverence for them

Pick any brand and you'll find the same with some guys. I'm as guilty as the next guy. It seems to me that the Weatherby's appeal is fading however.

When Roy Weatherby started making rifles he wanted the nicest rifles, with the flashiest finish and stock styles and he found a way to make the fastest rifle available in most common calibers. Nothing really wrong with that. Lots of guys like that but it never appealed to me. Some guys like the flashiest and fastest cars too. Once again, if you can afford it, and like it, then fine with me.

The trend now is toward more moderate chamberings and more practical rifles. But Weatherby still has their fans.

 

[BigG]

Different strokes for different folks. Not everybody thinks like you.

 

[Guntoter]

There are books on this subject and I don't know if any one book actually captures it well enough for a non-Weatherby fan to grasp. Others here have nibbled at the edges but it would take more writing than I have the energy for to begin to cover the 'Weatherby Mystique'.
Folks either like'em or they don't. If they do, they probably revere them. If not, no harm done, to each his own.
I will never be able to swallow spending 50k+ on a solid gold watch that tells time no better than a $100.00 Casio but I DO understand others reasons for doing so. It's partially a status thing but only a small part.

A great many, maybe most, Weatherby owners have little interest in shooting in general, reloading, and even gun collecting. Many of them have spent what most of us would consider fortunes running around the world taking large and dangerous game.
Even today the Mark V is about as close as you can come to an 'off-the-shelf' custom rifle with fit and finish to match. It's still a world class rifle that doesn't require any tuning or load work up to be ready to take on game anywhere on the face of the earth.

I don't know, this is like asking a cowboy re-enactor why he loves single action revolvers and lever action rifles. It isn't that there aren't better guns available it's because it gives him some contact, however tenuous, with other people he reveres or feels akin to.
I've got a Mark V I bought in '83 that has never been fired or had a scope mounted on it. Probably never will. It doesn't make me 'one of them' but I understand.

 

[HexHead]

Shoot a Weatherby rifle, not just the caliber in another rifle, then decide. The stock configuration makes them very comfortable to shoot. The finish on the Deluxe models is fantastic, with rich, deep bluing that rivals that on a Colt Python, with beautiful wood.
I have a .257 WBY Magnum, with 100 gr Nosler BT bullets, from the toes of my boots out to 400 yards, I'll get a maximum of 9-10" of bullet movement.

 

[redneck2]

At 63 YO, I remember when it was Weatherby or just something else. Kinda fits into the "my dog's bigger than your dog" camp. Weatherby was a real status symbol.

As previously noted, the advent of numerous uber magnums has settled a lot of the dust.

The stock configuration makes them very comfortable to shoot.

Dunno 'bout that. Mebbe depends on the generation it was built. I have a friend that one of the 1960-70's era in .300 Weatherby mag that has the extra rake at the heel of the stock. That sucker rolls up and smacks your jaw like a heavy weight fighter with every shot.

 

[aka108]

I like something tried and true and readily available anywhere ammo is sold, so 30-06 out
West and 30-30 here in the South East.

 

[Art Eatman]

Put it in the context of the times when the Weatherby line of cartridges was introduced. Back then, they were indeed the King Kongs of high performance. For that matter, the .460 still is. The 60º bolt and the strength of the nine-lug design were also new.

Competitors showed up, particularly in the 7mm and .300 arenas. They were quite usefully close enough in performance, at a much lower cost for the ammo.

Me being a sort of contrarian, in 1971 I bought a Mark V in .30-'06. After a bit of tweaking, it became my go-to hunting rifle. I figured that with max-pressure handloads through a 26" barrel, I could get muzzle velocities reasonably close to a .300 Win Mag. Through the years I found that I was plenty close enough to my "dream world" ideas.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

I, enjoy reading old reloading books, and the Weatherby's almost always are the fastest in any caliber, that doesn't necessarily mean more accurate, but it is a factor. As mentioned earlier now their is a large number of cartrges that pass the Weatherby's easily.

Some people buy a Porsche to race, some because it is a fine vehicle that they appreciated, and may never be able to use to it's full potential, but will still try, and then their are those who buy them so they can say they bought one.

The way you describe your buddy, he falls into category three.

 

[DM~]

Like Art said, when they were introduced, they were the fastest in town, these days it's just all about the $$$, as there's a LOT more cartridge choises today.

The only rifle i ever had fail in the field was a Wby., it happens to every mfg... These days, they are just like everyone else, trying to make something that will make them money...

EVERY brand has "their" kool aid drinkers!

DM

 

[SwampWolf]

they have the curved shoulder angle instead of a straight angle.

Weatherby claims that their "...unique double radius Venturi shoulder design increases the velocity of escaping gases without increasing the pressure within the cartridge. This results in higher velocity within standard pressure ranges." That's their reason for developing the "Venturi" case shoulder design; whether the design and subsequent claim has been validated by real world ballistic datem is another question.

 

[Liberty1776]

More polite?

- sweet!

 

[Elkins45]

I have a .257 WBY Magnum, with 100 gr Nosler BT bullets, from the toes of my boots out to 400 yards, I'll get a maximum of 9-10" of bullet movement.

The 257 is the undisputed king of the quarter bores, and IMO is the best of the WBY cartridges. I have a custom Mark X Mauser with a PacNor barrel and I have shot small whitetail out to 350 yards with a dead on hold.

One of these days I'm going to finally drop the cash to get a genuine Weatheby lefty in 257, but I'm still not at the point in my life where I can drop $1700 on a gun (plus scope). The 257 is the only Westherby cartridge I can make a case for owning, but others may disagree. I suppose there are folks who see an actual need for the 460, and I'm happy not to live where they hunt!

 

[Art Eatman]

As shots go, it was stupid, but a photo in a gunzine back some fifty or sixty years ago showed an exit wound from a .257 Weatherby.

A crossways hit on an Eland, in the rump. The exit wound on the offside ham looked to be six inches or so across and maybe nearly the same depth. The caption claimed it was a DRT kill.

 

[Nom de Forum]

What is the big deal? They are one of the best examples of a triumph of marketing paper ballistics over the reality of terminal ballistics. The really flashy rifles they were chambered in really grabbed the attention too.

 

[hq]

Shoot a Weatherby rifle, not just the caliber in another rifle, then decide. The stock configuration makes them very comfortable to shoot.

Wby rifles are very nice, 9-lug 60° action and fit and finish are second to none, but calibers themselves are IMO a bit strange. Many of them are ballistically perfect for big and dangerous game but pressure levels are already high, in hot climate even higher and risking an issue in a situation that may well cost your life doesn't sound tempting at all.

That's why my custom matte Mark V is chambered in .375H&H. Weatherby action in a non-Weatherby caliber, and I love the combination. .378Wby might gain me a few fps over .375 but whenever I might have to rely on the rifle to keep me alive, I rather play it safe.

 

[hatt]

What is is about a Weatherby that would make it worth it to have a rifle re-barrelled?

Looks like he wanted a Weatherby round. Good as reason as any. Not everyone wants a round on a top ten popularity list.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Wby rifles are very nice, 9-lug 60° action and fit and finish are second to none, but calibers themselves are IMO a bit strange. Many of them are ballistically perfect for big and dangerous game but pressure levels are already high, in hot climate even higher and risking an issue in a situation that may well cost your life doesn't sound tempting at all.

That's why my custom matte Mark V is chambered in .375H&H. Weatherby action in a non-Weatherby caliber, and I love the combination. .378Wby might gain me a few fps over .375 but whenever I might have to rely on the rifle to keep me alive, I rather play it safe.

I am happy for you that you found a rifle and cartridge combination you love. I noticed you are from Finland and I am curious why you choose the Mark V over the excellent and beautiful Sako 85? I absolutely agree about high pressures in hot climates. I live where summer temps are frequently above 43C. I also think the Sako extractor and ejector is superior to the Weatherby's for dangerous game hunting.

 

[Savage99]

The Weatherby cartridges and rifles fill a market for those who think they have the most velocity or those who want inlays in their stocks and roll over combs.

He filled a market and good for him. It's a business.

The cartridges are big for the bore size and have freebore (rifleing cut away in the throat) to get that velocity.

 

[mljdeckard]

Don't get me wrong, I don't care if there is someone who wants to buy a gold-dipped rifle or prefers any given gun based on nothing more than pure superstition. Do whatever. This particular guy, he knew little about guns at all, and it didn't seem to me like he knew any reason at all whether the original cartridge wouldn't have done the job just fine. I honestly don't know if there is any reason to re-barrel a rifle 'just because it's a Weatherby'. This thread was the first time I was aware there was any advantage at all. (Even if it appears the competition has erased the advantage.) I guess I'm not old enough to remember what the big deal was.

Ok, so to get this advantage from the Wby, can you handload for it, or does it have to come from factory loads? Does the curved shoulder shape make case prep easier or more complicated?

 

[cdb1]

I could care less about Weatherby cartridges and don't own a Mark V. What I do have is three Vanguards and two SA-08s. In my view they are outstanding quality firearms for the money and I also believe Weatherby's customer service is head and shoulders above all other firearms manufacturers.