I've seen in a few places that there is allegedly an import "ban" on the corrosive 5.45 x 39 ammo in the spam cans... because they are "armor piercing" and somebody made a pistol that shoots this caliber. I've heard a recorded phone call on AK operators union 47-74 youtube page with the atf that said this is true... and Copes distributing says they can't get anymore... does anyone here have any additional info? I have multiple rifles that shoot this cartridge and I love the surplus prices for the spam cans... I would hate to lose this supply of cheap ammo.
Import ban on 7n6 5.45 x 39 ammo?
- Thread starter JohnnyK
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I heard the same thing too, it may be true
http://www.pa2a.org/thread-rumour-5-45x39-7n6-steel-core-atf-ban-according-to-james-yeager
"cope's posted today that their shipment of 5.45 steel core 7n6 was held up. as much as i hate james yeager, he may have been right. if true, this isn't the end of 5.45x39, but do expect the price to go up. "
Edit: More Info
There is an ATF letter .
http://www.thebangswitch.com/import-ban-on-7n6-5-45x39/
"The rumor stems from an importer who had filed a Form 6 to bring in a shipment of 7N6 surplus ammo from Russia. The form approval went well past 2 weeks, which is the normal time frame for a Form 6 to be approved by the BATF. The importer emailed the BATF to find out what was going on with this particular import request and received this email response back."
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http://www.pa2a.org/thread-rumour-5-45x39-7n6-steel-core-atf-ban-according-to-james-yeager
"cope's posted today that their shipment of 5.45 steel core 7n6 was held up. as much as i hate james yeager, he may have been right. if true, this isn't the end of 5.45x39, but do expect the price to go up. "
Edit: More Info
There is an ATF letter .
http://www.thebangswitch.com/import-ban-on-7n6-5-45x39/
"The rumor stems from an importer who had filed a Form 6 to bring in a shipment of 7N6 surplus ammo from Russia. The form approval went well past 2 weeks, which is the normal time frame for a Form 6 to be approved by the BATF. The importer emailed the BATF to find out what was going on with this particular import request and received this email response back."
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dogtown tom
Member
Someone ought to read the ATF regulation before issuing such a letter:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=70394195a3edf623eba7ce77a1bddff1&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&rgn=div5#27:3.0.1.2.3.2
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=70394195a3edf623eba7ce77a1bddff1&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&rgn=div5#27:3.0.1.2.3.2
5.45 is 0.21456692913409caliber........which is not "larger than .22 caliber" according to this calculator http://www.convertunits.com/from/mm/to/caliber
Sam Cade
Member
dogtown tom said:
Ok.
The operative part:
So steel cored ammo is AP if it can be fired in a pistol.
The part that does not apply, note the OR. Not to be confused with AND.
Stick a fork in it..........
http://www.usacsales.com/index.php?route=information/news/news&news_id=14
http://www.usacsales.com/index.php?route=information/news/news&news_id=14
I see JBI Armory catching a lot of flak on facebook. How well deserved is it? I don't know. Check it out for yourselves, just reporting what I'm seeing.
On their actual website under services they advertise 5.45 AK pistols at the bottom right of the page. Not sure I can post a screen shot of it so I won't.
On their actual website under services they advertise 5.45 AK pistols at the bottom right of the page. Not sure I can post a screen shot of it so I won't.
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They admit that they built such pistols on their page and claim that they werent the only ones. Also are apparently not above getting into virtual shouting matches on their facebook page. Sure the people they're swearing at probably aren't real customers, but its more than a bit unprofessional.
Personally I think they and anyone else that made such pistols should have known better after seeing what happened with 7.62x39.
Also how much non surplus of 5.45 is available? I've never been that interested in the round, so I could be completely off base; but I thought non-surplus was near non-existant. If so this is an especially irritating situation for owners of guns that shoot this round.
ugaarguy
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vamo, taking a quick look at Slick Guns shows a few places that have new production Wolf and Red Army Standard 5.45x39 ammo. Lowest price there is $0.25 per round. That's a 10 cent per round price jump over the lowest prices I saw on 7n6 a a few weeks ago. Slick Guns is listing dealers with 7.62x39 as low as 21 cents per round, and Wolf steel cased 5.56 NATO as low as 27 cents per round. So, the Eastern Bloc nations were already making new lead core 5.45x39, but the cost savings on the caliber are now gone.
leadcounsel
member
Yep, it is irritating. Particularly given the fact that it is LESS powerful than handguns chambered in .308, 7.62x39, etc.
The surplus ammo was probably nearly dried up anyway, and had gradually crept up from 10 cents per round to around 15-20 cents. Just a couple days ago you could get a spam can for 16 cents per round, plus shipping. Now it's essentially all sold out and new stuff is 30 cents each, effectively doubling the cost of shooting that caliber.
There are a few companies like Wolf and Red Army that make new production without the steel penetrator core, but that means the ammo is closer to 30 cents each.
Grrr.... and so continues the war on the 2nd Amendment and freedom.
The surplus ammo was probably nearly dried up anyway, and had gradually crept up from 10 cents per round to around 15-20 cents. Just a couple days ago you could get a spam can for 16 cents per round, plus shipping. Now it's essentially all sold out and new stuff is 30 cents each, effectively doubling the cost of shooting that caliber.
There are a few companies like Wolf and Red Army that make new production without the steel penetrator core, but that means the ammo is closer to 30 cents each.
Grrr.... and so continues the war on the 2nd Amendment and freedom.
wally
Member
Wolf and Silver Bear have been pretty easy to find and at about the same price as the Wolf or Silver Bear .223 also, Academy regularly has the 30 round "Monarch" non-corrosive steel cased boxes.
I use it when I shoot suppressed with my 5.45x39 SBR -- don't want to mess with corrosive ammo and an expensive can.
But mostly I got the 5.45x39 to use the cheap corrosive surplus, of which I have a nice supply.
Superpsy
Member
Also confirmed by aimsurplus in case anyone is curious. Per their ar15.com industry forum.
The problem with this whole "they made a pistol so lets ban imported ammo with steel core" business is 1. its not armor piercing and 2. what keeps some idiot from making a one-off 7.62x54R "pistol" and banning that from importation, or hell, any imported ammo with a steel core for that matter? Its just ripe for abuse now.
Yes, it is ripe for abuse. That was probably the point. I really do hope gun companies will play nice and stay ways from imported ammo pistols until, and if, we can get this law changed. My brother and I both shoot on a very tight budget and his only non C&R vintage rifle guns are AK-74s. He's going to be very upset...
blarby
Member
Rcbs will do custom order 5.45*39 dies for $160.00
I know that you can swage lead core FMJ's down to .220-.221
I also know that I've seen boxer small rifle primed 5.45*39 steel cases. The headstamp and where they come from... If I could recall, I'd post it. Worst case berdan primers can be had.
Where the price point meets old steel core import cost ? Probably somewhere much further down the line- but I will say this :
With all of the tommyknocking about losing all access to import ammo over the current political situation, there is a serious surge in folks looking at reloading russian rounds again.
Some of that interest is gonna stick somewhere, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is one of the calibers that gets a little more looking at from a component standpoint- so I'd keep my ear to the ground on this'n.
tyeo098
Member
Its not fun, but reloading can be done.
It does require a bit of upfront investment (weird dies and such) but 222 rem cases can be converted to 5.45 and .224" projectiles can be swaged down to .221 with a call to LEE and 25$.
It does require a bit of upfront investment (weird dies and such) but 222 rem cases can be converted to 5.45 and .224" projectiles can be swaged down to .221 with a call to LEE and 25$.
Unfortunately it does not matter if the round will actually pierce armor, steel core ammo is considered armor piercing. The same thing happened with 7.62x39 it was of course a matter of time before enough 5.45 pistols were available to be sold before the atf banned it, but everyone making them should have known better based on the past incidents. Fortunately the 7.62x54r is not as attractive in pistol form as the previously mentioned rounds; not that someone wont make a pistol just because they can, but there is little practical reason for it.
What amazes me is that not a single big name gun rights site (NAGR, NRA, etc) has picked this up as news on their sites. While I believe that the ATF is blocking importation of the round, an actual press release and some coverage by news organizations would definitely at least draw a clearer picture of what is going on.
They are holding up import forms until it can be officially ruled on. The ruling will only affect 7n6 surplus and not commercial 5.45.
7n6 is actually bigger than .220 in diameter. Bullet construction is almost all steel. Steel jacket, steel core, thin layer of lead above the core and then a dead air space on top below the jacket.
7n6 is actually bigger than .220 in diameter. Bullet construction is almost all steel. Steel jacket, steel core, thin layer of lead above the core and then a dead air space on top below the jacket.
CoalTrain49
Member
Of course you realize this will give everyone a reason to start reloading if they don't already.
It's time to buy some more stock in ATK.
I'm glad I shoot 5.56. My brother is headed into one of the service academies this July, and then into the military, so he planned on switching to a 5.56 AR for most of his shooting with Project Appleseed and at home eventually. I'm curious to see what he ends up doing with his AKs. Luckily he still has quite a lot of 7n6. He might invest in reloading for them. He's never liked the commercial 5.45 options.
Wildbillz
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Well this should only be applicable to surplus ammo, not the commercial stuff (Tiger ammo and such) without the steel in the bullet. So 5.45 should still be available in those loadings. Just going to cost more.
Like I have said many times in many places. If you like a surplus caliber, get the gear to reload it. I bought 5.45x39 dies in a group buy and I don't even shoot the stuff.
WB
Like I have said many times in many places. If you like a surplus caliber, get the gear to reload it. I bought 5.45x39 dies in a group buy and I don't even shoot the stuff.
WB
SilentStalker
Member
Yep. There is a run on this stuff everywhere. I just checked all of my normal 5.45 sources and they are all sold out.
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