5.45 7n6 ATF ammo question. How is it legal under definition of AP? Is M855 next?

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ol' scratch

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I am a little late to the party and I know that. My question is in regards to the definition of armor piercing ammo and how the ATF is justifying the further ban of 7n6 ammo. According to regulations, anything that is greater than .22 (5.56) and has a steel core and chambered in a pistol is banned from import. My question is how they are able to do that given that the round is smaller than .22 and is not designated armor piercing? Please don't tell me that they are the ATF and that is how, I realize that. There is a very good reason I am asking this. If the ATF can come in and ban import of 5.45 which is smaller than their requirement of "larger" than .22, what would stop them from banning M855? What am I missing here?
 
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Well, the really simple answer is "nothing" :)rolleyes:) but the better answer probably has to do with the wording about "projectile cores which may be used in a handgun and which are constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium."

I don't think they've chosen to look at the M855 projectile as meeting that definition, while they think the 7n6 projectile does.
 
Look at Sam C's post number 4 in that other thread. There's a very important "OR" in the law. So being under .22 cal doesn't get it out of the woods.
 
"M855 and M2AP (.30-06 black tip) are specifically exempted from the definition of "armor piercing." See page 166 of the Federal Firearms Regulations"

I see the text in there exempting those two NATO munitions; is that exemption in the '94 Act-that-shall-not-be-named, or is the exemption they enjoy at the ATF's discretion (i.e. worthless)?

TCB
 
I got tired of the 5.45 coming in fits and spurts so I went all 7.62x39. Always available, no problems.
 
I've found the pertinent section, which is 18 USC 921(a)(17)(B):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, the projectile must be meet one of two criteria the first being any caliber that is "constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;"
7n6 has more the trace amounts of lead, so it doesn't meet this criteria.
The other criteria is that it has to be larger than .22 caliber (7n6 isn't .22 caliber) AND intended for use in a handgun, AND has a jacket that makes up more than 25% percent of the total projectile weight. Because the second criteria is all "ANDs" I don't think 7n6 meets these criteria.

So, since the 7n6 import ban is currently a temporary suspension while status is under review, I think our side should file legal briefs with the ATF pointing out that 7n6 doesn't meet the criteria for AP.

Further, lets look at that first sub criterion in the second criteria: "a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun".
Does the presence of a few handguns suddenly make ammunition that was actually designed and intended for use in rifles now make that ammunition designed and intended for use in a handgun? I think there's also a strong argument to be made on this point. Yes, 5.7x28mm ammo is designed and intended for use in both handguns and rifles. 5.45x39, and just about every other rifle cartridge were never designed nor intended for use in handguns. Could we challenge in court by simply getting the ammo makers to label the boxes: "This ammunition is designed and intended for use only rifles. This ammunition is not to be used in handguns."?
 
5.45 is .221 which means its larger than .22 caliber... so that idea is out..
I thought it was .219", but obviously I thought wrong. I still think the ammo manufacturers and importers should work the "designed and intended for use in a handgun" angle with legal challenges. Of course they may have tried that in the past, and not gotten anywhere. It's a thought though.
 
M855 ammo is also produced domestically and is still used by the US Military, so banning it is highly unlikely.

7n6 is imported and is subject to importation laws etc.
 
Found this on the classicfirearms website, hope it helps with the reasons.

Below is the ATF Special Advisory issued April 7, 2014

TEST, EXAMINATION AND CLASSIFICATION OF 7N6 5.45X39 AMMUNITION

Source: ATF

On March 5, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received a request from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency (CBP) to conduct a test, examination and classification of Russian-made 7N6 5.45x39 ammunition for purposes of determining whether it is considered “armor piercing ammunition” as defined by the Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended. Since 1986, the GCA has prohibited the importation of armor piercing ammunition unless it is destined for government use or testing. The imported ammunition about which CBP was inquiring was not destined for either excepted purpose.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

When ATF tested the 7N6 samples provided by CBP, they were found to contain a steel core. ATF’s analysis also concluded that the ammunition could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011. Accordingly, the ammunition is “armor piercing” under the section 921(a)(17)(B)(i) and is therefore not importable. ATF’s determination applies only to the Russian-made 7N6 ammunition analyzed, not to all 5.45x39 ammunition. Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability.
 
You can thank the NRA for this idiotic ban on certain ammo they were for it. Also gun and ammo makers love colluding with the govt to eliminate competition now an American company might make 20 round for 25 dollars
 
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