WestKentucky
Member
I'm going out on a very short limb and saying the 22/9mm thing known as the 22tcm will be in this category soon. If lw makes a glock barrel I will buy a glock for the first time.
Biggest cartridge flops ...
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The 280, 10mm, and 41 magnum are a lot more common than many think. Far from a flop. The 327 magnum and 45 GAP are 2 rounds I have no use for, but wouldn't call them a flop.
The 45 GAP, at least for now, is being used by several state police agencies. The 280, while not widely available in factory rifles is a very common cartridge for custom builds. If Remington had just settled on 1 name and offered the gun in a bolt rifle from the start it would have taken off. And the 10mm has a solid and growing following.
Don't sell a cartridge off too soon. The 270 Winchester was a huge flop for the 1st 25 years of its existence and was almost dropped by Winchester until a guy named O'Connor started writing about it.
The 45-70 had a short and uneventful span of about 20 years as a military cartridge where it all but died by 1890. It lay dormant and basically unused for nearly 100 years until revived in the early 1970's. It has only been commonly used in the last 20 years or so after being introduced in 1873. It is commonly thought to have been a buffalo hunting round. Not so. The buffalo were basically wiped out by the 1860's. The 45-70 was introduced in 1873 and laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to save the few remaining.
In my mind the WSSM's have to be the biggest mistake in recent years.
The 45 GAP, at least for now, is being used by several state police agencies. The 280, while not widely available in factory rifles is a very common cartridge for custom builds. If Remington had just settled on 1 name and offered the gun in a bolt rifle from the start it would have taken off. And the 10mm has a solid and growing following.
Don't sell a cartridge off too soon. The 270 Winchester was a huge flop for the 1st 25 years of its existence and was almost dropped by Winchester until a guy named O'Connor started writing about it.
The 45-70 had a short and uneventful span of about 20 years as a military cartridge where it all but died by 1890. It lay dormant and basically unused for nearly 100 years until revived in the early 1970's. It has only been commonly used in the last 20 years or so after being introduced in 1873. It is commonly thought to have been a buffalo hunting round. Not so. The buffalo were basically wiped out by the 1860's. The 45-70 was introduced in 1873 and laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to save the few remaining.
In my mind the WSSM's have to be the biggest mistake in recent years.
Ed Ames
Member
I don't think it is fair to count wildcats and the like. Something that the users were using before commercial brass - not to mention loaded ammo - was sold can't really be a flop so much as a prototype.
The .22 Jet certainly has the cred. Only one gun chambered for it, problems, etc..it is more of a flop than the .327 by a mile, but it did have a 25ish year commercial run.
I suspect that .17 hornady hornet is an utter flop. Two guns chambered for it, ammo available but only for a short spell. It was similar to .17 Ackley Hornet but deliberately different.
The .22 Jet certainly has the cred. Only one gun chambered for it, problems, etc..it is more of a flop than the .327 by a mile, but it did have a 25ish year commercial run.
I suspect that .17 hornady hornet is an utter flop. Two guns chambered for it, ammo available but only for a short spell. It was similar to .17 Ackley Hornet but deliberately different.
Wildcats definitely don't count - can be only one guy likes a wildcat and that's fine because it's his wildcat!
You guys hit the highlights for sure. I'll say the WSSM line is, by far, the dumbest flop in recent memory but two of these flops (and yes, they are at this point flops) are really great chamberings: .327 Federal and .30 RAR. They're both really great and loved by those who...well, LOVE them, but not widely appreciated so yes - they're flops.
Just my 2¢ worth and what do I know - I like the .25-35 and .32 Special!
Oly
You guys hit the highlights for sure. I'll say the WSSM line is, by far, the dumbest flop in recent memory but two of these flops (and yes, they are at this point flops) are really great chamberings: .327 Federal and .30 RAR. They're both really great and loved by those who...well, LOVE them, but not widely appreciated so yes - they're flops.
Just my 2¢ worth and what do I know - I like the .25-35 and .32 Special!
Oly
Hypnogator
Member
How about the Herters .401 PowerMag!
Gunnerboy
Member
308 marlin for sure! And 30 t/c oh yeah cant forget the 338 RCM
Newcatwalt
Member
.35 S&W gets my vote. What a terrible idea for a handgun cartridge.
silicosys4
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How about the Herters .401 PowerMag!
I was going to add that if no one else did, lol
Most people have never even heard of it, and I think only one gun was made for it, a Blackhawk-looking thing that was really ugly but supposedly pretty well made.
Basically a .41 mag that never gained the "popularity" that the .41 mag did.
RustyShackelford
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.41Magnum....
I wouldn't consider a .41magnum a "wildcat" or a flop. It was around for decades & you can still find reloading stuff/factory rounds for sale by many major vendors.
It was T&Eed to be the "ideal" US police sidearm load but fell far short for a # of reasons.
I'd add the newer 6.8SPC or the 6.8x40mm. The round was R&Ded for US special ops troops but never really got much buzz in the 2000s. The 6.8SPC II version had a few supporters but the rifle caliber kinda trailed off.
I had a passing interest in buying a AR in 6.8SPC(6.8x40mm) a few years ago but now Id lean towards a .300AAC Blackout.
The AR round was developed for sound reduction systems & for improved ballistics.
Will some new SOCOM load or super duper police round come up in the 2010s? Maybe, but with the SW Asia conflicts winding down I doubt any new calibers will be as wide-spread as the 5.56mm, 7.62mm or 7.62x39mm(AK round).
I wouldn't consider a .41magnum a "wildcat" or a flop. It was around for decades & you can still find reloading stuff/factory rounds for sale by many major vendors.
It was T&Eed to be the "ideal" US police sidearm load but fell far short for a # of reasons.
I'd add the newer 6.8SPC or the 6.8x40mm. The round was R&Ded for US special ops troops but never really got much buzz in the 2000s. The 6.8SPC II version had a few supporters but the rifle caliber kinda trailed off.
I had a passing interest in buying a AR in 6.8SPC(6.8x40mm) a few years ago but now Id lean towards a .300AAC Blackout.
The AR round was developed for sound reduction systems & for improved ballistics.
Will some new SOCOM load or super duper police round come up in the 2010s? Maybe, but with the SW Asia conflicts winding down I doubt any new calibers will be as wide-spread as the 5.56mm, 7.62mm or 7.62x39mm(AK round).
Field Tester
Member
5mm Rimfire.
Looks like if they can't get another and better platform, the .17wsm may go the same route.
Looks like if they can't get another and better platform, the .17wsm may go the same route.
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Field Tester
Member
I don't know much about the large Centerfire magnum cartridges, the most powerful I've shot is a 7mm Rem Mag.
Why are the short and super short failing? What little I've read about them on Wikipedia, they seem like decent rounds. From what I gather, you have the same, if not more power, in a shorter chamber. Can someone school me?
Why are the short and super short failing? What little I've read about them on Wikipedia, they seem like decent rounds. From what I gather, you have the same, if not more power, in a shorter chamber. Can someone school me?
1911 guy
Member
I definitely put the .327 Federal in the "Flop" category. Just a couple years ago it was the "it" CCW round, now it's a virtual unknown.
.45GAP will die as soon as contracts are up with the L.E. agencies that got suckered into it. Not a terrible round, but it offers absolutely no advantage over the ACP and costs more due to volume of production.
6.8SPC has been spinning it's wheels for a couple years now. It's just not gaining ground and manufacturers will have to end support just out of financial logic. It will take a while due to the volume out there right now, but it will die, soon, in the relative time table of firearm lifespans.
9mm Largo. A niche round that had a small following, even at its height. Overshadowed by more recent bullet and propellant advances.
I'm not sure I've mentioned anything that someone else hasn't already, and many of you know a lot more about the REALLY obscure stuff.
.45GAP will die as soon as contracts are up with the L.E. agencies that got suckered into it. Not a terrible round, but it offers absolutely no advantage over the ACP and costs more due to volume of production.
6.8SPC has been spinning it's wheels for a couple years now. It's just not gaining ground and manufacturers will have to end support just out of financial logic. It will take a while due to the volume out there right now, but it will die, soon, in the relative time table of firearm lifespans.
9mm Largo. A niche round that had a small following, even at its height. Overshadowed by more recent bullet and propellant advances.
I'm not sure I've mentioned anything that someone else hasn't already, and many of you know a lot more about the REALLY obscure stuff.
Field Tester
Member
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.276_Pedersen
Forgot to mention the .276 Pedersen.
In fact there was a long, very detailed and informative thread on it a few months back. I'll dig it up and link to it for those who are curious.
Forgot to mention the .276 Pedersen.
In fact there was a long, very detailed and informative thread on it a few months back. I'll dig it up and link to it for those who are curious.
Field Tester
Member
scythefwd
Member
as to the 327 federal.. its easier to find guns chambered in it than its little brother, 32 HR mag. Hell, I'm looking for brass for either so I can make my own because factory 32 mag, while listed on websites.. is almost as hard as finding a hens teeth.
Probably the reason most flop is there is just not that much improvement in cartridges left. Americans really haven't accepted anything cobbled up on the 6.5 mm caliber. I really thought the 260 Remington would have been the prom queen but it and the 25-06 kinda fizzled after a few years. It's just too hard to beat the rifle cartridges developed
70+ years ago. Unless somebody just wants "sumpthin diffrent" there's really not much of a market. Plus...I can't imagine there's just a lot of interest for FFL holders out in hunting country to supply a WSSM when a good old Remington 7mm mag or 300 Winchester mag has worked...and will work and no new young wonder banger gonna motivate a working man...rancher or hunter to throw down a $1000.00 for a rifle rig he might not be able to find factory ammo for three years after he's done it.
I understand Remington will bring any wildcat under the Remington brand if somebody will pay for 500,000 rounds to be made-up and will chamber rifles for it. Doesn't make for a lotta factory support after that.
70+ years ago. Unless somebody just wants "sumpthin diffrent" there's really not much of a market. Plus...I can't imagine there's just a lot of interest for FFL holders out in hunting country to supply a WSSM when a good old Remington 7mm mag or 300 Winchester mag has worked...and will work and no new young wonder banger gonna motivate a working man...rancher or hunter to throw down a $1000.00 for a rifle rig he might not be able to find factory ammo for three years after he's done it.
I understand Remington will bring any wildcat under the Remington brand if somebody will pay for 500,000 rounds to be made-up and will chamber rifles for it. Doesn't make for a lotta factory support after that.
bannockburn
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I think both the .32 H&R Mag and the .327 Mag have been resounding flops in the handgun cartridge marketplace. In rifle cartridges the Winchester Short Belted Magnums would get my vote for the answer to the question nobody asked.
I generally agree with that. Anything developed today is more or less redundant with something built yesterday, at least in the hunting/self defense categories. I suppose the 5.56 could be improved upon. But it has all been done before.
The real advances in the last thirty years has been in bullet design.
barnbwt
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Wow, the consensus certainly seems to be the WSSM; rare agreement around here 
. It truly did what no rounds before could, long action power in a short action frame --but no one bothered to verify the short actions could handle the redonkulous bolt thrust of such a fat cartridge base, so its capabilities ended up limited even if its burn efficiency was improved.
TCB
. It truly did what no rounds before could, long action power in a short action frame --but no one bothered to verify the short actions could handle the redonkulous bolt thrust of such a fat cartridge base, so its capabilities ended up limited even if its burn efficiency was improved.TCB
Wow, the consensus certainly seems to be the WSSM; rare agreement around here
TCB
I won't even try to argue that the WSSMs weren't a flop, because they were. However, I don't think case head thrust had anything to do with it. The WSM cartridges have the same size case head and the 300 and 270 versions are quite popular.
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I think we need to define the term "flop". A flop is a cartridge that NEVER caught on. The 22 WRF is not a flop; it was very popular once but was replaced by the 22 Magnum. The 30 Carbine is certainly not a flop; it's extremely popular, sells millions of rounds each year despite having only one main platform (in addition to the Marlin 62 lever action)
. The 9mm Federal, the 256 Winchester, the 22 Jet, now those were flops.
UpperAtmosphere
Member
How about the Dardick Tround.
While the 348's success has been modest, I wouldn't call a cartridge that was offered for 33 years in it's original incarnation and is still available in new rifles and ammo today 79 years later a "flop".
There's enough interest in the old girl yet that Hornady offers a plastic tipped spitzer bullet for it. Now there's something I thought I'd never see!
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