Is WW-231 gone for good?

Who told you that?

It would make sense to do it now before the end of the powder shortage. There is really no reason to pack it under separate labels. That's an extra manufacturing cost that adds no tangible value and very little perceived value for the customer. Right now the customers are desperate for any powder they can get. I don't think anyone would be greatly upset if they had access to plenty of HP-38 even while the Win231 packaging SKU is discontinued.

If I was on the Hodgdon marketing team, I would vote for that change in a heartbeat.

Mad Chemist said:

It would make sense to do it now before the end of the powder shortage. There is really no reason to pack it under separate labels. That's an extra manufacturing cost that adds no tangible value and very little perceived value for the customer. Right now the customers are desperate for any powder they can get. I don't think anyone would be greatly upset if they had access to plenty of HP-38 even while the Win231 packaging SKU is discontinued.

If I was on the Hodgdon marketing team, I would vote for that change in a heartbeat.

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I disagree, there is probably no additional cost. Changing the label on a bottle doesn't cost more. Add the fact the Winchester franchise is very valuable it would be foolish to diminish that value but cutting the product line, especially such a high profile powder. Considering many reloaders are willing to pay more for W231 than HP-38 I would not cut that powder.

Don't know, but I just had 5 one pound cans delivered to my door last week from Cabela's.

Here's a handy tip for those who can't find 231 but like the pretty label. You are going to need an empty can of 231, a funnel and a can of hp38... We'll actually y'all are pretty smart, I'll let ya figure it out...

Why get rid of W231 when they charge a couple buck's a lb for it. I would think it'd make more sense business wise to get rid of HP-38.

My group just got 5 8# jugs of W231 a couple of days ago from Cabelas.

Archangel,

The increased cost is significant even just to change over labeling equipment on a packaging line. I am a manufacturing professional who works in operations and I speak from many years of experience in managing high speed production lines.

Packaging change overs require down time, downtime equals money. Every minute of downtime translates into lost opportunity cost. Most likely the mark up on the Win brands reflects this increased cost or it reflects a licensing agreement with Olin. I seriously doubt that the net margin for the Win brands is increased by the presence of the name.

In all likelihood, Hodgdon probably made an agreement with Olin to continue using the Win brand in order to get sole distribution rights. It would be silly if they didn't have and expiration date on that agreement. No company wants to distribute and market another company's name and products when they could distribute their own branded product instead. Carrying the Win brand may have helped Hodgdon in the past. But nowadays Hodgdon is synonymous with reloading and they would be much better off by expanding their own branded lines of products.

What does Cabelas charge for 8-lb jugs of 231?

I would highly suspect that, if anything, HP38 would go before 231. 231 is a household name been around forever, with a more than massive following. I've not known a company to discontinue one of its best Sellers. I'm calling bs on whomever told you that.

At my local gs today they had both HP38 AND w231. same price for both. I think the powder planned (shortage) is about over.

If the container is the same and the product inside the container is the same, the production line "setup" expense to change out one color label for another costs less than the accountant's pencil that it he used to calculate the labor cost to change labels.

HP38/231 is starting to pop up slowly in my area.

Mad Chemist said:

Packaging change overs require down time, downtime equals money. Every minute of downtime translates into lost opportunity cost. Most likely the mark up on the Win brands reflects this increased cost or it reflects a licensing agreement with Olin. I seriously doubt that the net margin for the Win brands is increased by the presence of the name.

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Agreed except that W231 and HP38 are packaged in the same jug these days. Changing over the packaging line between the two takes minimal downtime.

Stop the line, swap out the labels in the labler, swap out the corrugate cases from the case packer with cases with the appropriate graphics and off you go. Probably not more than 10 or 15 minutes, including a coffee break to make the change.

(I worked in high speed consumer products manufacturing before retiring.)

Funny, I heard the opposite about a year ago - HP38 wasn't going to be made anymore.

At the Raleigh gun show today, I saw both HP38 and W231 there in 8lb jugs. The one I priced was $205 - too much for me.

just got my 8lb jug from http://www.recobstargetshop.com/ last thursday.
Order #: XXXXXX
12/31/2014 10:53AM CST
QtyItem----------------- Price---Total
1 WIN 231 8# POWDER $140.49 $140.49

I just picked up an 8 lb jug of HP38 for $155 plus tax. Awhile back I got 8 lbs of Red Dot for $170 plus tax.
It seems the powder shortage is slowly but surely going the way of the dodo.

Toprudder said:

Funny, I heard the opposite about a year ago - HP38 wasn't going to be made anymore.

At the Raleigh gun show today, I saw both HP38 and W231 there in 8lb jugs. The one I priced was $205 - too much for me.

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Same here, that's what I heard as well....figures, I usually find HP-38 for slightly less than Win 231.

Russellc

Win 231 is still listed on the Winchester website. Not that means anything.

dave

Just a quick interweb search turned up the first rumor of W-231 being discontinued was in August 2010. (Maybe earlier, but I didn't keep looking.)

That's 4 1/2 years ago friends!

Hasn't happened yet, and I don't see it happening in the future.

rc

rcmodel said:

Just a quick interweb search turned up the first rumor of W-231 being discounted was in August 2010. (Maybe earlier, but I didn't keep looking.)

That's 4 1/2 years ago friends!

Hasn't happened yet, and I don't see it happening in the future.

rc

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If Hodgdon was going to discontinue any of the Winchester powders why in the world would they decide to expand the line at the same time? Remember, they did add AutoComp to the Winchester line a few years back.