usfan
Member
Alright. I just got back from the range, & i thought i'd give my opinion on what was happening, for anyone in the future who might be looking for the same info.
Since the squib was (as far as i can remember) the second shot in my test rounds, i am theorizing that the impact of the previous shot packed the powder even more toward the front of the bullet, leaving a void in the powder. As the next shot was fired after cycling with the barrel pointed down, the powder did not get into the flash hole. You do not have this problem with non compacted loads, except with very small loads, as the powder can jump forward & back, & some remains in the flash hole. I had gotten some squibs years ago in mild 38spl loads, & the small amount of powder caused there to be none in the flash hole. It was necessary to point the gun up after every shot to prevent this, in those mouse fart loads.
I loaded up a bunch more, in 45c, & 454. I had 23.2g of w296, & 24g, plus some 29.4g of 4227. I had a variety of projectiles, including 250 flat nosed plated (berry's), hitech coated 300 swc w/gas checks, & 230g fmj. I shot about 100 total rounds, of the different combinations. I had NO squibs, this time. I did deliberately point the rifle up between shots, but i didn't with the 45c loads in the redhawk. Those were double action revolver shots.
The 230g fmj were all fine, but since the earlier loads were not as compressed as the 300g rounds, i suspect the powder was compacting more from the recoil, & without tipping the next shot so any loose powder would be near the primer, it resulted in a squib.
I could be wrong.. i was once, back in '68. But i think i have eliminated the other possibilities:
1. not enough powder. I used a lot less in the 45c rounds, with no compaction at all.
2. wrong primers. I used regular small rifle in the 454, & large pistol in the 45c. All of them fired properly, at this session.
3. Wrong projectile. I used the same ones, in a variety of powders & charges. They all work fine.
4. The lee factory crimp die did it. All were crimped, & all fired without issue. It is perhaps not needed (aren't there threads on that topic?), but it should not have caused a squib.
5. Projectile not rated for higher velocity. IMO, they are, but it is a moot point if the powder is not igniting. the powder did not 'know' the projectiles were not rated high enough & decide not to ignite.
6. wrong powder. Admittedly, w296 has issues, but this was not because of the powder, imo, but the compaction & distance from the primer. NO squib loads when pointing the gun up between shots, & none from the pistol at any time.
7. No manual data. I got a blend of information, from a variety of sources, including the winchester tables. They have very little for 230fmj, & even less for rifle 454. Many of the loads were composites & extrapolations from successful loads that others have tested. But this did not cause the squibs.
8. i was confusing and/or stupid in my question. Perhaps, but this still did not cause the squib.. unless you mean my accumulated applied stupidity caused it.
Anyway, this is my analysis of why i got the squibs, & i've learned a bit.
1. Don't assume the powder being compressed slightly will not move forward more & leave a void.
2. Don't ask questions here, unless you feel like some abuse.
The replies were entertaining, even if irrelevant. Sorry i did not take it in better humor, as i am getting grumpier in my old age.
Since the squib was (as far as i can remember) the second shot in my test rounds, i am theorizing that the impact of the previous shot packed the powder even more toward the front of the bullet, leaving a void in the powder. As the next shot was fired after cycling with the barrel pointed down, the powder did not get into the flash hole. You do not have this problem with non compacted loads, except with very small loads, as the powder can jump forward & back, & some remains in the flash hole. I had gotten some squibs years ago in mild 38spl loads, & the small amount of powder caused there to be none in the flash hole. It was necessary to point the gun up after every shot to prevent this, in those mouse fart loads.
I loaded up a bunch more, in 45c, & 454. I had 23.2g of w296, & 24g, plus some 29.4g of 4227. I had a variety of projectiles, including 250 flat nosed plated (berry's), hitech coated 300 swc w/gas checks, & 230g fmj. I shot about 100 total rounds, of the different combinations. I had NO squibs, this time. I did deliberately point the rifle up between shots, but i didn't with the 45c loads in the redhawk. Those were double action revolver shots.
The 230g fmj were all fine, but since the earlier loads were not as compressed as the 300g rounds, i suspect the powder was compacting more from the recoil, & without tipping the next shot so any loose powder would be near the primer, it resulted in a squib.
I could be wrong.. i was once, back in '68. But i think i have eliminated the other possibilities:
1. not enough powder. I used a lot less in the 45c rounds, with no compaction at all.
2. wrong primers. I used regular small rifle in the 454, & large pistol in the 45c. All of them fired properly, at this session.
3. Wrong projectile. I used the same ones, in a variety of powders & charges. They all work fine.
4. The lee factory crimp die did it. All were crimped, & all fired without issue. It is perhaps not needed (aren't there threads on that topic?), but it should not have caused a squib.
5. Projectile not rated for higher velocity. IMO, they are, but it is a moot point if the powder is not igniting. the powder did not 'know' the projectiles were not rated high enough & decide not to ignite.
6. wrong powder. Admittedly, w296 has issues, but this was not because of the powder, imo, but the compaction & distance from the primer. NO squib loads when pointing the gun up between shots, & none from the pistol at any time.
7. No manual data. I got a blend of information, from a variety of sources, including the winchester tables. They have very little for 230fmj, & even less for rifle 454. Many of the loads were composites & extrapolations from successful loads that others have tested. But this did not cause the squibs.
8. i was confusing and/or stupid in my question. Perhaps, but this still did not cause the squib.. unless you mean my accumulated applied stupidity caused it.
Anyway, this is my analysis of why i got the squibs, & i've learned a bit.
1. Don't assume the powder being compressed slightly will not move forward more & leave a void.
2. Don't ask questions here, unless you feel like some abuse.
The replies were entertaining, even if irrelevant. Sorry i did not take it in better humor, as i am getting grumpier in my old age.