.223 / WSR primer pierced

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some years ago I picked up some clearly once fired Federal nickel plated .357 brass at my club, thinking this should be good for reloading. For some reason, upon being reloaded, for every 5-10 shots with mid-range loads, the primers would pierce, resulting in a damaged firing pin. That is a pretty expensive piece of damage in a S&W model 19 or 66. I never could figure out what the problem was so I quit using the brass.
Was the brass so hard that it didn’t obdurate and, instead; let the case slide back against the recoil plate while the firing pin was still protruding from it? Or was the brass too soft, holding the case in the chamber, letting the primer blow back against the firing pin while the pressure was high and hot, burning the primer (and my firing pin) at that point in the timeline?
Is this related to this thread? If so; I’d sure like to know the answer.
 
Hmm, I have two M66's, both get fed a steady diet of full tilt 296 jacketed loads, and I use lots of nickel and yellow brass, never had a single primer go south.

I would doubt with near certainty that your problem with pierced primers in those .357's has anything at all to do with the brass.

Do you use magnum primers with your full pressures loads, or just a standard SPP.

I bought a new firing pin for one of my M66's a couple years ago, and I don't recall it being expensive, it was like some where around $10.

GS
 
So, I got a chance to break down the rifle and the firing pin was extremely dirty, covered with carbon residue from top to bottom (guess I cleaned everything except the important parts!). Cleaning the rifle thoroughly now... I also looked at the Hodgdon data for Benchmark and 60 grain bullets (V-MAX versus Nosler BT) and I was under the minimum load recommended by them!

I was at 22.5 grains, 2.260 OAL, and WSR (which Hodgdon tested for the load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle). Twist is different and barrel is longer in the load data.

hodgdon_60_benchmark.png

I think retesting with a clean (totally) rifle is in order, as lower loads pierced a primer or two than higher loads in one or two of my workup test last weekend...
 
A few years ago I loaded up some 223 for my savage model 12 to do some load development. The first 3 rounds pierced the primers. Was using standard CCI small rifle primers. I didn't realize what was happening at first. I packed up and went home to investigate and found out I was accidentally using the wrong scale pan in my balance beam scale and I was trickling charges 4 grains hotter than I thought.
 
someguy2800 said:
A few years ago I loaded up some 223 for my savage model 12 to do some load development. The first 3 rounds pierced the primers. Was using standard CCI small rifle primers. I didn't realize what was happening at first. I packed up and went home to investigate and found out I was accidentally using the wrong scale pan in my balance beam scale and I was trickling charges 4 grains hotter than I thought.
Click to expand...
Not saying that couldn't be an issue, but I was using a RCBS Chargemaster Duo for the charges double checking every 5th one on a balance beam scale. I guess I'll need to chronograph the loads during the work up to verify I am not going over the FPS the book says they should be around...
 
I'm sort of nonplussed that after starting this thread and getting a lot of advice pointing to firing pin problems you only yesterday disassembled your gun and cleaned it!

I suppose this only adds weight to the old adage about cleaning, inspecting,lubing your guns every time you fire them.
 
moxie said:
I'm sort of nonplussed that after starting this thread and getting a lot of advice pointing to firing pin problems you only yesterday disassembled your gun and cleaned it!

I suppose this only adds weight to the old adage about cleaning, inspecting,lubing your guns every time you fire them.
Click to expand...
Hard to clean a gun when you are in a different city traveling on business... I think I stated I would not be back in front of the gun until Friday or Saturday due to travel. You got to pay for toys somehow - right?
 
One last question, are JP Enterprises Titanium firing pins worth the extra money or just get a standard one to replace mine? Looking at a local distributors available products...
 
The virtue of a Ti firing pin is light weight which translates theoretically at least to a shorter lock time. Unless your AR is set up with an exotic trigger group for use in competition, you're not going to notice the difference.

Regular firing pins, unless somehow boogered up by the action, tend to last forever plus or minus 214 days. :)
 
moxie said:
The virtue of a Ti firing pin is light weight which translates theoretically at least to a shorter lock time. Unless your AR is set up with an exotic trigger group for use in competition, you're not going to notice the difference.

Regular firing pins, unless somehow boogered up by the action, tend to last forever plus or minus 214 days. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks, original seems to be rough on the end to touch, but I couldn't see anything through high magnification. While I have it torn down I have a Geissele SSA-E trigger to try out.
 
Just thought I would post a follow up on this thread. Redid my work ups with same rifle, but swapped out Federal 205MAR primers for the WSR and primer piercing was eliminated. So, seems my 2 Rock River Arms ARs do not like the WSRs. I did chronograph all loads and the were in normal book ranges accordingly.

Also, interesting note on the Hornady 75 grain Match ammo (#8026 - http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-75-gr-BTHP-Match/). 22 out of 30 had pierced primers tested 4 different ARs. Interestingly enough, the Hornady Superformance version did not pierce any primers (#80264 - http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-75-gr-bthp-Superformance-match), they were also not near as accurate in my rifles as the #8026. American Eagle AE223 (500 count box), no pierced primers.

So, cleaned BCG and changed primers (Horandy factory ammo had pierced primers before and after cleaning and tested with brand new firing pin, still pierced).

I did note that the WSR primers seemed to pierce most often when using Benchmark powder, VV N140 only had one out of a few hundred tested.

Thanks for all the help.
 
Superformance in Gas Operated Firearms

http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/superformance-in-gas-operated-firearms
Due to the longer duration of peak pressure produced by Superformance™, the post peak/declining port pressure at common carbine and mid-length gas port locations is still higher than that produced by standard propellant. This has a tendency to flood the system with a larger volume of gas, at a higher velocity, that tries to open the bolt of the gun too fast. It’s a timing issue. The cartridge case is still swollen from the application of pressure during firing while the gun is simultaneously trying to extract the cartridge case before it has had an opportunity to settle back to its original size, or more simply: the gun is still in the process or firing while it’s trying to extract the cartridge case .
Click to expand...
 
Last week I fired a hot load out of my AR-15, 25.6 grains H4895, Rem Case, 55 grain Nosler, CCI400 primer.

The primer indentations were deep, but they weren't pierced or cratered.

I've since backed my loads down to .223 spec and haven't had any issues with the CCI 400's. That being said, once my supply of these is used up, I'm going to use the 450's.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
winchester wsr primers for ar15
Replies
11
Views
5K
Jerry M
J
Y
  • Locked
Winchester SR primers
Replies
2
Views
431
Walkalong
Walkalong
D
  • Locked
CCI #41 Military Primers
Replies
7
Views
624
Walkalong
Walkalong
D
  • Locked
CCI #41 Military Primers
Replies
15
Views
687
1KPerDay
1KPerDay
L
  • Locked
CCI #41 Primers
2
Replies
31
Views
22K
Larryswn
L
Back
Top