El Chapo Had A Fast and Furious Barrett .50 Cal

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't know about any other conspiracy hypothesis but I have a good theory that now they are involved in some super conspiracies to cover their negligent, incompetetent, rear ends.

Executive privilige, dream on, this has blown open into one embarrassing scandle that is only going to be made worse by these clownish attempts to keep from fessing up to the truth now that the country (US) and the world knows.



"Anyone that thinks the US government needed to smuggle guns into Mexico so they could be found there has never crossed the US / Mexico border."

Tmsr replies
"Someone should explain that to Sergeant Andrew Tahmooressi."


Sure Tm let me enlighten you in a country like Mexico with strict gun control, poverty, and resulting widespread corruption Mr. Tahmooressi would just as likely have been killed with a real military issue assault rifle, one of those Mau Dueces described to be in el chapos arsenal, or a gunman's pretty personal toy purchased from a US gun shop as a result of operation fast and furious as well as any other weapons in their mass arsenal most of which were mass distributed throughout the world by The US, and Russia just to name a couple of big contributers.

But of course the blame for government blunders and the complicated troubles of the world can now be conveniently placed on the laps of all legitimate gun owners in America.

What a great idea they can severy punish us for even the most trivial firearms related offenses (defined by rabid zealots) and make grandurious claims of strides in solving the worlds problems.
 
Last edited:
JSH1 said:
The ATF allowed the sales to happen. They didn't tell dealers to go find some gun traffickers to sell to. The smuggling network was well established before F&F started.
Click to expand...
The BATFE TOLD the dealers to make sales which BOTH knew were unlawful, and to which dealers OBJECTED. They were TOLD to sell the guns ANYWAY.

I would have recorded the whole thing and told the BATFE to pound sand.

Trust the word of the BATFE? I'd sooner trust the word of Ayatollah Khamenei.
 
"The post-election list of pardons should be VERY interesting..."
Only if we force him to be specific; none of that "all crimes past, present, and future" nonsense. I just MIGHT be willing to let them off the hook if they would just admit what went down, for once (I honestly can't understand how it isn't a requirement of presidential pardons, seeing as they ARE an admission of guilt, and I don't understand why they would be subject to 5th amendment protections given the whole 'override' aspect as well as their being an official office activity)

So what you're saying is;
-The local enforcers arranged the sales through coercion of shop keepers
-The local captains used their underworld contacts to solicit buyers
-The organization kept away local law enforcement to protect the buy
-They then ran interference on federal law enforcement to cover the buyer's egress from the United States

LITERALLY THE ONLY THING MISSING FROM THIS BEING TEXTBOOK ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IS A PAYMENT FROM THE CARTELS THEMSELVES FOR THEIR TROUBLE*. And like the gangs whose hierarchy names I used above, it is practically impossible this is the only illicit scheme they had/have running. If the Bureau intended to use the sting as justification for funding increases (whether they got more money in the end I do not know, but I do know they used the incident to push for stepped-up enforcement/book keeping actions in border states) the scheme seems very much like a sort of Racketeering, specifically of the "protection" variety. Yes, yes, I know a large portion of our government now uses the gambit of inventing problems & fixing them to justify their wages; this is just a clearer example than we usually see.

*The ATF supposedly does not see the money it confiscates or the tax revenue it collects. I think it is high time to audit the BATFE and see if their expenditures line up with their budget allotment, since they have access to myriad varieties of graft by virtue of their enforcement mandate, and F&F seems to indicate they may be accessing them at very high levels of leadership. Interestingly enough, it would appear the Hollis v Lynch case may shortly be getting access to the machinegun registry as discovery in the case, for the purpose of determining whether or not post-86 machineguns have been added to the registry by the Bureau as political or monetary favors in direct violation of federal law. Think about that; there's a lot of money to be made in getting post-sample or confiscated machineguns added to the registry & made 'legitimate' for resale to private citizens...and no one has ever seen or even had oversight of the registry at the center of it all, which the ATF openly admits is so incomplete and full of errors as to be useless for determining a MG's legal status...

TCB
 
Last edited:
The ATF allowed the sales to happen. They didn't tell dealers to go find some gun traffickers to sell to. The smuggling network was well established before F&F started.
Click to expand...
This isn't mutually exclusive to the ATF's coercion, btw. There was a pre-established system of smuggling, and the ATF pressed LGS's to enable it for the purposes of their little 'sting.' Somehow, I doubt the stores were told their guns were going across the border to be abandoned in the hands of monsters.

As far as Chapo's 50BMG;
That it lacked a scope/sight means only a few things, considering this man & his men rose to prominence through brutal murders & burning their enemies alive in drums of diesel fuel;
-The police stole or 'lost' the sight on the gun (easily removed, not as conspicuous or noticeable as lifting the whole gun)
-Chapo or his guys used it for recreational blasting (probably executions also)
-The 50cal was basically in the 'armory' for lack of a better word, and not being used...because it would seem they had plenty to go around

Couple this with the facts that;
-A 50bmg bolt action is kind of designed for taking out a helicopter-like object at range (anti-materiel)
-Chapo supposedly had guys stationed in the hills for this exact reason
-The Federales frequently use helicopters for insertion (it's not like they have gun ships or miniguns to clear the ground before landing for these ops)
-RPGs/AT4s don't yet seem to be very common south of the border (though an RPG took down a helicopter just last May)

And it makes a lot more sense that these guns were kept around. You post guns and barriers on all approach roads, and keep some heavy rifles scattered around on the high ground to take on aerial targets that try to drop in forces. Not as effective as Ack-Ack, but a lot cheaper & easier to smuggle out of the US...especially with US backing.
 
Anyone remember that back in 2011 or so there was a Sinaloa Cartel guy who had been arrested, and claimed that F&F was part of a deal in which the cartel got guns and immunity in exchange for information about rivals? It seemed pretty dubious at the time, but there were other instances of these guns turning up in the hands of Sinaloa cartel members - in one case I believe there were supposedly 40 of them found together. A little searching turns up multiple cases.

But on the other hand, these guys have a lot of money. Hard to believe it would be that big of a deal for them to get any kind of guns they want, in whatever quantity they want, without needing to make any special deals with the US government. Wouldn't it be even easier for someone like that to acquire American guns through corrupt military or police sources?

No idea what really happened, but after this many years the odor is still overpowering.
 
JSH1 said:
I vote for incompetence
Click to expand...


Are you sure no conspiracy?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/documen...furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/
On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."
Click to expand...

.... emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.
Click to expand...

So there is evidence that the ATF was using F&F as a way to bolster their actions of inappropriately going around the Legislative process of re-writing gun laws and instead, create their own rules which starts a registry and just so happens to coincide with Obamas anti gun agenda.

Those emails were written on Obamas watch during F&F.... not Bush's during Wide Receiver.

Same with the Fed Agents whistle-blowing. Happened during F&F; not Wide Reciever.


I suggest you read the great link Coaltrain provided. It links to several left leaning CBS reports that don't cast a good light on Oba-Hol.
 
Last edited:
JSH1 said:
Because law enforcement does sting operations all the time. By that logic every undercover agent and the supervisors that authorized the operations should be in prison.
Click to expand...
they should if their actions included giving criminals weapons.
 
I know its an F&F rifle and that's the main point, but its also sitting next to an RPG and what looks like an M203 grenade launcher. But of course readers just think "OMG a rifle that can shoot down a HELICOPTER OMG!"

I'm actually more interested in the rifle with the grenade launcher.

I'm betting it is an M16 with a M203 attached.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/legal-us-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/

1) We give Mexico between $550 and $700 million in foriegn aid.

2) Mexico spends some of that money on the direct commercial sales program to purchase military arms - including approximately 18,000 assualt rifles per year

3) An estimated 26% of the small arms purchased through the direct commercial sales program, end up in the arsenals of the drug cartels - that is 4,600 assault rifles a year.


The commercial sales program authorized by the State Department under Barrack Obama has armed more Mexcian narc-terrorists than Fast & Furious ever did - but nothing is ever said about it.

The State Department has known since 2009 that thousands of M-16s were disappearing out of Mexican military armories and going to the drug cartels - and those weapons were being used to kill judges, police chiefs, reporters and others - but the State Department never thought to cut sales.

The U.S. State Department is responsible for the the Mexican drug cartels getting 9 times the amount of weapons lost in Fast and Furious - through the commercial sales program and Mexican government corruption.

I think Janet Napolitano lied to congress about having no knowledge of Fast & Furious - her best buddy Dennis Burke was one of the chief architects of the plan. She also had to know that an ICE agent, Ed Hammel who sat in on the meetings was reassigned. Ed Hammel raised objections to the gun walking and then he was reassigned. There has to be a paper trail and a witness trail but congress has been unable to get Ed Hammel or his supervisor in to testify.

I think Eric Holder lied to congress about having no knowledge of Fast & Furious until reading about it in the papers, and somewhere in the 80,000 documents that President Obama is claiming Executive Privilege over, is the proof.

President Obama claimed to have no knowledge of Fast & Furious and then he claimed executive privilege on the F&F communications.

The president claimed EP on communications that he said he never had.
 
C0untZer0 said:
I think Eric Holder lied to congress about having no knowledge of Fast & Furious until reading about it in the papers, and somewhere in the 80,000 documents that President Obama is claiming Executive Privilege over, is the proof.
Click to expand...

They have that evidence already.


What did the attorney general know about the operation, and when did he know it? In May 2011, he claimed to have known about gun-walking tactics for only a few weeks. But by October, new documents showed that Holder had been briefed about Operation Fast and Furious as early as July 2010. And in January 2010, just months after the ATF had launched Operation Fast and Furious, personnel from the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, a multi-agency network run by the Department of Justice, had been brought in to provide additional manpower.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430153/fast-furious-obama-first-scandal
Click to expand...


Even if this was all done with the right intentions..... incompetence, lying, and cover-up have all been reasons to jail other Govt employees in he past.
 
I meant to include this above.

Furthermore, the operation may have had an explicitly political angle. E-mails obtained by CBS News in late 2011 showed ATF officials corresponding about the possibility of using Fast and Furious to push through a regulation requiring gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” In other words, the ATF permitted certain gun shops to conduct certain, inadvisable sales to dangerous people and then planned to point to those sales to justify the need for new reporting requirements

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430153/fast-furious-obama-first-scandal
Click to expand...
 
Carl N. Brown said:
A tip of the iceberg:
https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2012/s1209.pdf
512 pages, 4,127,675 bytes, U.S. Department of Justice
Office of the Inspector General, "A Review of ATF's Operation Fast and Furious and Related Matters" September 2012
Click to expand...

That document is likely the most comprehensive analysis of Operator Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious available. I didn't get through all 512 pages but I did read the 52 pages of conclusions last night. Interesting story of the ATF trying to move from small ball to the major leagues without the resources. A lot of mismanagement and departments not placing nice together. No smoking guns or evidence of criminal behavior.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
.50 cal Coasties vs. Drug Runners
2
Replies
45
Views
4K
S4gunn
S
T
  • Locked
50 cal incident-Kansas City / not good!
2 3 4
Replies
84
Views
9K
AZ Jeff
A
4
  • Locked
CA Residents Feinstein is at it again!
Replies
20
Views
877
spacemanspiff
S
T
  • Locked
CNN: "Smugglers' deadly cargo: Cop-killing guns"
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
Wes Janson
W
F
  • Locked
Gun Draws High-Caliber Support, Criticism (.50 Cal Article)
Replies
22
Views
678
50caliber123
5
Back
Top