Forward assist

Ah yes, the HK "thumb print". In the early 1970's some G3 in West German Service had them and some did not. Unfortunately the G3 tended to have its malfs after it had been shot a good bit and was rather warm. Thus the thumb print got its name not only from looking like a thumb print, but from branding a new thumb print into your thumb.

Our PNZGRN Partnership unit and the Airborne and Mountain troops we worked with had for the most part been trained to do an immediate action drill on their G3 rifles much like our own, starting with thumbing that file like surface on the bolt carriers. When the FalshirmJager and AlpineJager did their transition to the M-16A1 for training, guess what? Some had malfs. The Germans immediately attempted to push the AR bolts closed the same way they had their G3 with a thumb on the side of the carrier through the ejection port using the cut out in the BCG meant to pop open the dust cover. This sometimes resulted in bad burns that featured two blisters that mirrored the gas escape holes in the bolt carrier and a slice on the thumb from the edge of the ejection port.

-kBob

Elkins45 said:

As a lefty the primary purpose of the FA seems to be as a channel to blow gas and debris back into my face. I would like an upper with the shell deflector but without a hole for the FA. Anybody make one of those?

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you mean like this?

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-stripped-upper-receiver-no-fa.html

Oh yeah, just like that. Thanks much for the link. Now I just have to find one in stock somewhere...

They make forward assist eliminator plugs. I suspect if you installed one with a little Permatex it would eliminate the lefty gas venting issue.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/198053/schuster-forward-assist-plug-delrin-ar-15

Perennial debate.
Being old enough to have carried an Air Force 16 without the FA, today I do not & will not own an AR without one.
Denis

I like having it. I load my mags to capacity and every once in a while velocity isn't adequate to go completely into battery. Just a press with the thumb and it goes on in. To say it could never be needed or is useless is arrogant in my opinion. It should be obvious that discretion is needed to determine whether it should be used. As stated above, the Army teaches immediate action drills that include its use. I can imagine a soldier trying to use their sweaty/dirty/bloody thumb to ride a bolt forward under combat stress or stopping to assess the severity of the problem. SPORTS is the drill and tapping the forward assist is the last thing one does before attempting to fire after the malfunction. Is a dirty chamber the only reason a bolt won't go into battery, or is it the only reason that supports not using it?

Conversely, it can be quite the jam enhancer. There is no perfect answer and anyone can come up with some special situation but at the end of the day it is an option versus not having one.

If you've never used the forward assist you obviously haven't "operated" enough. A true "operator" knows of and appreciates the advantages of the forward assist.

Operate on gentlemen.

Jeff White said:

Really? Tell us what a "true operator" knows please?

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they know how to work a switchboard

When I was in Security Police Tech School at beautiful Lackland AFB about 1984 our CATM instructor simply stated that the big spring slamming the bolt forward would chamber the cartridge with much greater force than our Rosie Palms could.

It was also the stated belief that the only reason that the FA was on the rifle in the first place was because the "ARMY" was to cheap to use the correct power and to arrogant to admit it.
`
Air Force security police carried slickside AR15, well into the late 1980s when they were replace with A2 and the GAUs without FA into the early 2000s. About the time I was retiring in 2004 the switch from A2 and GAUs to M4s was well under way.

That is the way I remember it.

joem1945 said:

My issue M16 A1 didn't have it and I never needed it. IMO it makes problems worse.

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Then you weren't issued an A1.

If you've never used the forward assist you obviously haven't "operated" enough. A true "operator" knows of and appreciates the advantages of the forward assist.

Operate on gentlemen.

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Funny, because what training I've received lately indicates the real "operators" are making less use of it.

When I was an 11B in the army, we were trained to "pull S.P.O.R.T.S." in the event of a malfunction (Slap the magazine, Pull the charging handle back, Observe the chamber, Release the charging handle, Tap the forward assist, and Squeeze the trigger, for the benefit of those here who aren't former military and may not know).

Fast forward to just a couple of years ago, when the Norfolk PD, for whom I now work, finally starting issuing patrol rifles and getting everyone qualified on them, and what we were told was different. The training was put on by our S.O.T. team (Special Operations Team -- our department apparently considers S.W.A.T. team politically incorrect, since it has the word weapons in it or something) put on the training, and they, in turn, had done a lot of training with the Navy SEAL teams based here in Norfolk, and this training was based on the experience that the SEALs and other Spec Ops units had garnered in Iraq and Afghanistan -- especially in the CQB incidents in Iraq. What they had found, and what they were teaching based on this, was that if you had a malfunction, you just moved your head back to clear the charging handle, sweep it briskly to the rear to clear the malfunction, and resume your cheek weld and press the trigger again. No S.P.O.R.T.S.; just rack the charging handle and shoot again. If that didn't work, unless you were behind cover, don't waste any more time trying to clear the malfunction; just transition to your pistol.

Nice to get some insight, Billy. I am probably considered "Old Army" as I have been out since '05. I'm sure many lessons have been learned in that time and the training modified to suit.

I'm glad everyone can discuss this here and share opinions, but it seem moot really. Probably 99% or better of AR's have them. Use it or don't!

Operate on gentlemen.

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Not everyone can take the pressure, but someone has to do it.

I always thought of the FA in the same way I think of my 4x4 pick-up truck.

If you get just a little stuck, 4x4 will get you unstuck.

But if you are really stuck, 4x4 will allow you to get Really Really Stuck, Much Worser!

The main advantage of the FA is to silently insure the bolt is closed and locked during hunting, or combat.

But, the thumb cut in the BC works just as well for that.
Without enough power to hopelessly jam a round in the chamber you can't get back out.

rc

its there to counter 'bolt bounce'. some hang up where the bolt slams closed hard enough to bounce back, and get hung up on slightly out of battery. Because of the non reciprocating charging handle there would be no easy way to fix it without ejecting a round.... so a forward assist was put in. That what i was told. makes sense because it clearly was not meant to force a bend round in the chamber.

Nice to get some insight, Billy. I am probably considered "Old Army" as I have been out since '05. I'm sure many lessons have been learned in that time and the training modified to suit.

I'm glad everyone can discuss this here and share opinions, but it seem moot really. Probably 99% or better of AR's have them. Use it or don't!

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I ETS'd in 2000, so I'm even older. For myself, I'm in agreement with the view that they're a "jam enhancer." Stoner didn't want them, the Air Force didn't want them, and they were only included at the army's insistence because the M1 had had a charging handle you could use to force the bolt closed (though the BAR hadn't, and I never heard of any complaints about that). They also add an opening to the receiver, albeit a small one, through which gas can escape and foreign matter can enter. That said, it's not a big deal, and I certainly didn't let the presence of the FA dissuade me from purchasing the rifles I own that have it. When I built a carbine, I did get a slickside receiver though.

rcmodel said:

But, the thumb cut in the BC works just as well for that.
Without enough power to hopelessly jam a round in the chamber you can't get back out.

rc

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Yes, provided the bolt isn't hot from shooting, or you're wearing gloves.

USAF_Vet said:

Yes, provided the bolt isn't hot from shooting, or you're wearing gloves.

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I can see both points, however, if that scallop is used to seat a round quietly then its probably cool to the touch.

If the BCG is hot, you've been shooting and "being stealthy" is a ship that's sailed.

easing it forward quietly may be somewhat useful in incredibly rare situations, but lets be honest the giant palm sized button at just the right location and angle to be punched was NOT designed to be eased forward slowly

Guys,

I would like all of you to do me a favor.

Take your AR 15 of whatever stripe and load a good dummy round in the magazine and lock the magazine in place.

Now Pull back the Charging handle, but instead of letting it go hold on to it as the bolt goes forward very slowly. You may have to do this several times, but chances are you will eventually only have the BCG go partially forward perhaps even to stop with the very forward edge of the BCG to be seen through the ejection port.

At this point pull the Charging handle back again.

You will likely note that the extractor did not engage and the dummy round is still in the rifle, either partially in the chamber or laying atop the magazine loose.

Had you attempted to load a second round your rifle would now be well and truly "Jammed", maybe even involved in a "ka-boom" if it were live ammo.

Don't harass me until you have managed this "drill".

Honestly I could give a thing of very small value for what the expensive or cheap schools teach on this or what the military teaches or what some high speed low drag out fit does. I have seen and been forced to deal with the sort of malfunctions on more than a few occasions THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY USING THE FA.

Use your thumb to push the bolt forward via the ejection port cover cut out on the bolt carrier? Read about what I posted about that upstream with the Germans being cross trained on M-16A1 rifles. Yes in a real fight situation we want to encourage folks to injure themselves, NOT!

Come on guys, read before you post.

-kBob

easing it forward quietly may be somewhat useful in incredibly rare situations, but lets be honest the giant palm sized button at just the right location and angle to be punched was NOT designed to be eased forward slowly

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You've got some tiny hands if that's palm sized. It's smaller than the tip of my thumb.

Guys,

I would like all of you to do me a favor.

Take your AR 15 of whatever stripe and load a good dummy round in the magazine and lock the magazine in place.

Now Pull back the Charging handle, but instead of letting it go hold on to it as the bolt goes forward very slowly. You may have to do this several times, but chances are you will eventually only have the BCG go partially forward perhaps even to stop with the very forward edge of the BCG to be seen through the ejection port.

At this point pull the Charging handle back again.

You will likely note that the extractor did not engage and the dummy round is still in the rifle, either partially in the chamber or laying atop the magazine loose.

Had you attempted to load a second round your rifle would now be well and truly "Jammed", maybe even involved in a "ka-boom" if it were live ammo.

Don't harass me until you have managed this "drill".

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Given that you're really not supposed to ride the charging handle forward, but just let it go, under realistic circumstances would you do this and thereby induce this malfunction? And if you do get a malfunction as a result of this, well, its shooter induced, n'est pas? Why do you need a forward assist? How about just not inducing the malfunction in the first place?

Honestly I could give a thing of very small value for what the expensive or cheap schools teach on this or what the military teaches or what some high speed low drag out fit does. I have seen and been forced to deal with the sort of malfunctions on more than a few occasions THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY USING THE FA.

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Well, for my own part, all during my time in the infantry, and since then, shooting my own ARs and those of the police department I work for, I've never seen one of these malfunctions THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY USING THE FA. I have, however, seen any number of malfunctions THAT WERE MADE WORSE BY USING THE FA. (Hey, you started yelling first.)

Use your thumb to push the bolt forward via the ejection port cover cut out on the bolt carrier? Read about what I posted about that upstream with the Germans being cross trained on M-16A1 rifles. Yes in a real fight situation we want to encourage folks to injure themselves, NOT!

Come on guys, read before you post.

-kBob

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As meanmrmustard pointed out above, using the divot in the bolt carrier to push the BCG forward and ensure it's all the way forward, seating a round fully is something that you only need to do in those rare instances where you might want to quietly chamber a round. The bolt carrier will not be hot, and it's not going to brand your thumb. It doesn't get hot until after you've done quite a bit of shooting, by which time all need for stealth is long gone. If your bolt carrier is not going all the way forward after you've shot the gun enough to get it hot, you've got other problems, and using your thumb to press the BCG all the way forward is not the solution to them (neither is the FA).

Really this is a non-issue.