AR308 forward assist issue and request for help.

[MCMXI]

I was hunting this past weekend with a POF P308 and attempted to load a round "quietly" by pulling the charging handle back and then slowly easing the bolt forward. The bolt didn't go into battery but I didn't try using the forward assist at that time. Rather, I pulled the charging handle all the way rearward to extract the round, and then let the charging handle go in the standard fashion and a round chambered without issue.

A couple of days ago while sitting at the kitchen table I tried once again to load a round by easing the bolt forward and once again the bolt didn't go into battery. This time I attempted to use the forward assist but I still couldn't get the bolt to go all the way forward into battery. The action bound up so tight that I had to get a rubber mallet to whack the charging handle rearward to extract the round. I'm using factory Federal Trophy Copper ammunition but shoot this rifle suppressed so there could be some carbon in the chamber. If you have an AR308 can you try to replicate what I did to confirm that the forward assist does indeed work?

Many thanks.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I read your earlier post so I tried it on 2 AR15s and forward assist worked on both, I let the bolt ease foward to the bolt lugs hit and then pushed it forward, sometimes I had to push assist twice. Both guns were cleaned since last range trip, one fairly new, the other about 6yrs old.

 

[MEHavey]

had to get a rubber mallet to whack the charging handle rearward to extract the round

Ouch ! Don't do that. !! Break that aluminum handle and you're really up the creek.
(You tried mortaring first ?)

As to why it was stuck... how did you (physically) use the forward assist?
Since you have to get the extractor to spring up/over the rim in the process, it ain't touchy-feelly

 

[MCMXI]

I read your earlier post so I tried it on 2 AR15s and forward assist worked on both, I let the bolt ease foward to the bolt lugs hit and then pushed it forward, sometimes I had to push assist twice. Both guns were cleaned since last range trip, one fairly new, the other about 6yrs old.

I have quite a few AR15s and have used the forward assist successfully in the past, but I only have one AR308 so don't have much in the way of reference.

Ouch ! Don't do that. !! Break that aluminum handle and you're really up the creek.
(You tried mortaring first ?)

As to why it was stuck... how did you (physically) use the forward assist?
Since you have to get the extractor to spring up/over the rim in the process, it ain't touchy-feelly

No, I didn't pogo stick the rifle, just used the momentum of the rubber mallet to break the cartridge free. The case rim must have been under the extractor since the cartridge ejected when the charging handle came back. I hit the forward assist a few times with the heel of my hand until there was no forward movement of the bolt. Is there a particular technique that works best?

 

[Havok7416]

I have to do this often with several AR15s. One of the newer guns will clear via mortaring but my original AR needs to be hammered open every time (and this has occurred MANY times without breakage for those concerned about breaking the handle). In either case the BCG never goes into battery with the forward assist. The lack of positive control on the BCG is IMO one of the worst design features of the AR platform. I have often considered the side-charger for this reason.

 

[mshootnit]

I was hunting this past weekend with a POF P308 and attempted to load a round "quietly" by pulling the charging handle back and then slowly easing the bolt forward. The bolt didn't go into battery but I didn't try using the forward assist at that time. Rather, I pulled the charging handle all the way rearward to extract the round, and then let the charging handle go in the standard fashion and a round chambered without issue.

A couple of days ago while sitting at the kitchen table I tried once again to load a round by easing the bolt forward and once again the bolt didn't go into battery. This time I attempted to use the forward assist but I still couldn't get the bolt to go all the way forward into battery. The action bound up so tight that I had to get a rubber mallet to whack the charging handle rearward to extract the round. I'm using factory Federal Trophy Copper ammunition but shoot this rifle suppressed so there could be some carbon in the chamber. If you have an AR308 can you try to replicate what I did to confirm that the forward assist does indeed work?

Many thanks.

One thing you can do for hunting is to just rack one into the chamber normally before your walk and put the rifle on safe. Then when it is time to shoot just use your thumb to trip the lever down to "fire". I carry my M&P10 this way with no problems. And correct me if I am wrong (I was once) that this platform has been toted thousands of miles by thousands of GI's locked and loaded.
On my rifle the safety is pretty robust with positive detents so I feel pretty good about it.

 

[MCMXI]

One thing you can do for hunting is to just rack one into the chamber normally before your walk and put the rifle on safe. Then when it is time to shoot just use your thumb to trip the lever down to "fire". I carry my M&P10 this way with no problems. And correct me if I am wrong (I was once) that this platform has been toted thousands of miles by thousands of GI's locked and loaded.
On my rifle the safety is pretty robust with positive detents so I feel pretty good about it.

I could have had a round chambered while driving around, but I'd rather not since I'm not in a combat zone. It was a case of step out of the truck and shoot. If I were walking around and glassing I would have had a round chambered. Regardless, I'm still curious if the AR308 forward assist actually works or if it's a carry over from the AR15 and is there more for show than anything else. I'm hoping that someone with an AR308 will chime in.

 

[Varminterror]

If you had to whack the CH to open and extract, it’s clear the extractor snapped over the rim. Not the issue.

My LFAR FA’s work for rounds sized properly for my chambers.

 

[MCMXI]

My LFAR FA’s work for rounds sized properly for my chambers.

Can you ease the bolt forward to chamber a round with your FAs using properly sized rounds?

 

[Varminterror]

Can you ease the bolt forward to chamber a round with your FAs using properly sized rounds?

It’s not as gentle as pushing a button on the TV remote, nor even the mag release, but yes, a silent “stalk feed” should work. I tend to TRY hard thumb pressure first, then move to pressing the heel of my thumb against it - last resort is a momentous “whack” with the heel, maybe a 3-4” strike, with insufficient force to bruise the palm of my hand.

As long as you have enough spring force to strip the round from the mag, the rifle SHOULD fully close on the round on its own even when slow closed. The FA is just insurance.

If you have a slight crush fit of headspace, or more frequently, of cartridge base, all bets are off. But I do tend to believe the reciprocating mass inertia and buffer spring force should really be spent overcoming the mag lips, not spent crushing rounds home or force-feeding rounds which don’t want to seat.

Admittedly, I do quite typically leave a round chambered in transit, but the need does arise from time to time.

 

[BSA1]

You mention the possibility that the chamber may be dirty. Have you tried drop testing the ammunition you are using to ensure it chambers easily?

I had some leftover ammunition that I reloaded for a Ruger Mini-14 some years previously. While this ammo fed perfectly in the Ruger it failed to feed completely in my AR so I tried to seat the round completely in the chamber using the Forward Assist. Big mistake! It took a lot of hard pulling on the charging handle to eject the cartridge. (I did not know about mortaring back then).

IMO trying to force a round that fails to feed using the forward assist just makes a bad problem worse. My active duty U.S. Army son tells me that occasionally he has used the forward assist when on the range. However he is in a non-combat unit and he says they get well used hand me down rifles from combat units to qualify with. My AR’s are in excellent condition so that is not a issue. Regardless I no longer use the forward assist. If the cartridge fails to chamber completely I am just going to eject it using the charging handle and let the bolt fly forward to chamber the next one.

 

[mshootnit]

I could have had a round chambered while driving around, but I'd rather not since I'm not in a combat zone. It was a case of step out of the truck and shoot. If I were walking around and glassing I would have had a round chambered. Regardless, I'm still curious if the AR308 forward assist actually works or if it's a carry over from the AR15 and is there more for show than anything else. I'm hoping that someone with an AR308 will chime in.

It usually works in both of mine with minimal effort but I usually give em a light/moderate palm whack to be sure, and it is silent enough. But big picture, I think the FA was designed to work in the heat of exigencies, with a quick whack or two, and was not envisioned as a feature to be gingerly worked to ensure silent hunting. Kind of like how you have to drop a car hood or like when a truck door was half latched. Hard to just gently push it closed.

 

[Varminterror]

Equally, “success” in a battlefield environment may not necessarily include the FA employed to crush fit an oversized cartridge. As long as the FA pushed hard enough to snap the extractor over the rim to allow subsequent extraction of a mal-fit cartridge, it’s performed a critical job.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'd say it's less to do with your FA and more to do with your bolt-chamber lug interface.

How well broken-in is the rifle?

Todd.

 

[MCMXI]

You mention the possibility that the chamber may be dirty. Have you tried drop testing the ammunition you are using to ensure it chambers easily?

I checked today and the Federal ammunition drops into the chamber without issue. In addition, the bolt closes easily on a PT&G 1.630" GO gage, and also closes on a Forster 1.633" NO GO gage. I don't have a field gauge to use to check if the chamber is any larger than .003" over SAAMI minimum. I could measure some cases ejected from the rifle but it wouldn't achieve much at this point.

How well broken-in is the rifle?

Maybe 500 rounds but no more.

As long as the FA pushed hard enough to snap the extractor over the rim to allow subsequent extraction of a mal-fit cartridge, it’s performed a critical job.

That's an interesting way to think of the forward assist, not so much as a way to get the bolt into battery which has always been my understanding of its function, but to get the extractor over the case rim so that the round can be extracted.

 

[mshootnit]

This is one of my favorite AR308 rifles, but I am having trouble running the FA on it....it doesn't have one!
View attachment 874798

 

[Varminterror]

That's an interesting way to think of the forward assist, not so much as a way to get the bolt into battery which has always been my understanding of its function, but to get the extractor over the case rim so that the round can be extracted.

The FA SHOULD help close into battery, but there’s not really much mechanical advantage available in its design (aka, none) to actually aid in crush fitting an oversized round. It certainly should help close into battery when dirty or dry, but in the case of an oversized round, all we can really ask for is snapping over the rim to extract - lest we end up wedging the oversized culprit hard into the chamber, not closing anyway, temporarily disabling the rifle, and bruising our palm in the process.