Carrying Another's

Good Ol' Boy · Sep 9, 2016

Recently (last week) my Misses bought her first gun, with the intent of eventually carrying. I have been sharing with her for some while what I have learned from research, experience as well as from this forum. We regularly toss questions back and forth.

Tonight on the way home from dinner she asked about CC someone else's pistol. I told her I honestly didn't know and would check on that. I feel pretty sure I read somewhere that should she grab one of my guns in the house and justifiably use it in the house that that's OK? But what about carrying someone else's firearm?

It's unlikely that either of us would ever switch guns to EDC but it does seem like a valid discussion. I couldn't find anything on handgunlaw.us that specifically mentioned this.

This might be a simple answered short thread but any info is appreciated.

evidrine · Sep 9, 2016

I don't think there is anything wrong or illegal with that as long as you have permission so it couldn't be considered stolen. In some states it is required to have a firearm registered. This would be something you may want to check before borrowing. Kind of like checking on insurance before borrowing a car.

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bullseye308 · Sep 9, 2016

I don't that would be an issue. If the shoot is justified is where the difference will be. So long as the gun is legal and the shooter is not a felon there should be no problem.

Coyote3855 · Sep 9, 2016

I don't know Virginia law. I believe in some states, the concealed carry permit/license specifies the firearms which can be carried by the permit holder. Do you both have CC permits? Are firearms listed on the permit? If not, you are probably OK to carry about anything. But you need to check state law and municipal ordinances if applicable and not take advice from fools like me on the internet.

the Real Alpo · Sep 9, 2016

I believe it would depend on your state's laws.

In Texas, unless they changed it, you're either qualified to carry a revolver only, or can carry revolver OR auto. So if I was in Texas and had a revolver-only license, and borrowed my brother's 1911, I'd be in trouble.

As I understand it, New York's license lists all the guns you are allowed to carry. Carrying someone else's would certainly get you in trouble.

Here in Florida I can carry whatever I want to. Mine, my wife's, brother's, neighbor's. The license is to carry. Doesn't specify what I can or cannot carry.

RX-79G · Sep 9, 2016

Virginia's CCP doesn't designate which gun you carry. Federal law allows people to loan each other guns, and VA doesn't have a state law that's contrary to that.

Acera · Sep 9, 2016

the Real Alpo said:
In Texas, unless they changed it, you're either qualified to carry a revolver only, or can carry revolver OR auto. So if I was in Texas and had a revolver-only license, and borrowed my brother's 1911, I'd be in trouble.

It has changed, long time ago. That information is out of date, no difference between revolver, semi-auto or any other handgun in Texas regarding carry. No longer matters what you qualified with regarding what you can carry.

.

Good Ol' Boy · Sep 9, 2016

To reiterate, my Misses does not have her CC permit, YET. I DO have a CHP.

There is nothing on my permit that says anything other than that I'm legally able to carry a concealed hand gun, that's it. If/when she gets her CHP it would be the same state and county as mine.

I'm looking for cited law. Again, I checked handgunlaw.us and didn't see anything specific to this in VA. Maybe someone else might see something I didn't, or have another source?

RX-79G · Sep 9, 2016

You aren't going to find a law that gives you permission. Laws will only tell you what you can't do and there is no Virginia law that says you can't carry a loned weapon.

FL-NC · Sep 9, 2016

As long as the handgun is legal (not stolen or otherwise a "crime gun"), the other person is allowed by law to carry it and has permission of the owner, and there is no local/state law that binds the carrier to a specific handgun, I can't see why this would be an issue any more than loaning someone a rifle or shotgun to hunt with.

RX-79G · Sep 9, 2016

There are state laws that forbid it, but not in the OP's state of VA.

There are states that require you to qualify with the guns you want to carry, and they go on your CCL card.

And there are states where you can't loan someone a gun.

Warp · Sep 9, 2016

Fortunately for OP, he is in Virginia

Red Wind · Sep 9, 2016

Fortunately for OP, he is in Virginia

Yeah, we keep reminding him of that!

toivo · Sep 10, 2016

As I understand it, New York's license lists all the guns you are allowed to carry. Carrying someone else's would certainly get you in trouble.

That is correct. However, we do have what is called "cross registration," which means that a handgun can be on more than one person's license. It's very common between spouses and between parents and adult children. (I'm not sure, but I don't think you can do it outside of immediate family.)

I strongly recommend it for any NY permit holders who have shooters in their family. If a pistol permit holder dies and there is no cross-registrant for his/her handguns, they have to be turned in until the will has been probated and appropriate transfer arrangements have been made. Much better to keep them in the family and out of the state's hands.

J-Bar · Sep 10, 2016

In the unfortunate situation where one would have to use a borrowed gun in a self defense situation, the gun would most likely be taken by the police, and I am told sometimes it's difficult to get it returned. I'm sure that varies from state to state and county to county like everything else.

So even if you as the defensive shooter are not charged for breaking a law, you would probably have to buy the original owner a new gun to replace the one in an evidence box.

longknife12 · Sep 10, 2016

Some states are specific....in Colorado, the CHP is issued to ME irregardless as to what I'm carrying.
Dan

Warp · Sep 10, 2016

J-Bar said:
In the unfortunate situation where one would have to use a borrowed gun in a self defense situation, the gun would most likely be taken by the police, and I am told sometimes it's difficult to get it returned. I'm sure that varies from state to state and county to county like everything else.

So even if you as the defensive shooter are not charged for breaking a law, you would probably have to buy the original owner a new gun to replace the one in an evidence box.

Which is of course basically inconsequential in that situation.

If I had loaned a gun to somebody and they used it in a justified defensive situation, I wouldn't accept a replacement. If they could afford to acquire a gun, they would still need it for themselves. I suspect a lot of people who would be willing to lend a firearm to another person may do the same.

redbone · Sep 10, 2016

What warp said. Although I have never loaned a gun, if I did and it was confiscated, I'd probably pony up another one to the borrower. But that would be a family member or extremely close friend, and they're not generally borrowers...

tactikel · Sep 10, 2016

Two thoughts. Allowing someone to posess your firearm may not be legal in your state.
If someone used your firearm in a shooting (justified or not) you may be party to a lawsuit.

ArchAngelCD · Sep 11, 2016

I can only speak about PA, I can carry any handgun no matter who owns it as long as I have the owners permission and it's a legal handgun. I can give my wife and children a handgun to use or as a gift without transferring it to them. We need a LTCF (license to carry firearms) to carry concealed or a loaded handgun in the car. That LTCF allows me to CC any legal handgun. (legal meaning not stolen or used in the commission of a crime.) There are few restrictions on law abiding citizens here in PA, as it should be.

If it's not forbidden by law you can. Like said above, you will not find a law giving you permission to do something.

.308 Norma · Sep 11, 2016

tactikel said:
Two thoughts. Allowing someone to posess your firearm may not be legal in your state.
If someone used your firearm in a shooting (justified or not) you may be party to a lawsuit.

+1 on the first point. While I know that loaning my firearms to my wife is perfectly legal where I live (Idaho) I sure don’t know whether it’s legal or not in VA, where the OP (Good Ol’ Boy) lives.

But on the second point – Good Ol’ Boy asked about loaning a gun to his wife, not a neighbor, friend, or some other acquaintance. I figure if my wife shot someone and there was a resulting lawsuit, I’d be involved in that lawsuit, both emotionally and financially, no matter who owned the gun she used. It would be the same way if I did the shooting and there was a resulting lawsuit. The lawsuit would affect my wife too, even if she'd never laid eyes on the gun I used.

RX-79G · Sep 11, 2016

Several of us answered the question specifically about VA. I used to live there and had a CCL, and there is no prohibition in state law about loaning a gun or in the CC laws about what gun you can use.

The subject of loaning your spouse a gun is a little strange since most things married people own are considered common property - they don't go through probate. And, as long as we aren't talking about a straw purchase, you can loan, sell or give your firearm to anyone who can legally own one in your state. And you can loan a gun to someone out of state.

So the question of who specifically owns the gun really isn't important, except in a few painful states.

Warp · Sep 11, 2016

RX-79G said:
Several of us answered the question specifically about VA. I used to live there and had a CCL, and there is no prohibition in state law about loaning a gun or in the CC laws about what gun you can use.

The subject of loaning your spouse a gun is a little strange since most things married people own are considered common property - they don't go through probate. And, as long as we aren't talking about a straw purchase, you can loan, sell or give your firearm to anyone who can legally own one in your state. And you can loan a gun to someone out of state.

So the question of who specifically owns the gun really isn't important, except in a few painful states.

Whoa there. Let's not go making that statement.

The general thing here would be that you can NOT transfer possession of a firearm across state lines without going through an FFL.

.308 Norma · Sep 11, 2016

^^^
Ha! Funny how this thread's evolved from a question about the legality of loaning a handgun to one's spouse, to the legality of transferring guns across state lines.

From what I've seen on these internet message forums though, that type of evolving is not all that uncommon. I still think THR is the best forum I participate in.

CapnMac · Sep 11, 2016

I think RX is referring to a situation where you might lend a person (presumably in your recognizance) a person from out of state, a firearm while they are within the loaner's state.

Which to my layman's mind is not a transfer across state lines. Not unless the loanee wants to buy the pistol.

Now, less complicated if a person's cousin comes to visit and goes out to the deer lease, and is loaded a .30-3 from the rack.

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