P64 issue

OK, this thread has prompted me to take another look at my P64. I just ordered a set of Polish Iron grips for it, hearing that they do wonders in taming this beast.

While the P64 is an acceptable "last ditch" defensive weapon, the Makarov PM is a much better true fighting pistol:

Lots of bad press above for the p64. I own two. Gentle on the palm?...not so much. Dependable and accurate? You bet. Solid steel, easy to disassemble and clean, reliable, 9x18 packs a punch, as spot-on accurate as it gets. Sorry to hear many think it's overly abusive to use as a weapon of choice. I find it a superlative CCW weapon with a well earned reputation for getting the rounds down-range and on target. If anyone wants to "dump" their "junk" cheaply, I'm in the market.

The anti P64 sentiment is strange.

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Especially considering not single mention yet of the glaring safety issue with these pistols.

When the gun is decocked and the safety is off, the gun can blow your head off if you drop it on the hammer. I highly suggest to anyone that uses this pistol to leave the manual safety on, despite the 30 lb trigger pull. This might feel redundant, but it is important if you value your life and that of anyone around you, which is most of us. And if you have ever dropped something, which is most of us.

This gun uses a rebounding hammer in order to float the hammer off of the (non-inertial) firing pin. In hindsight, this is a serious design failure, which is why no one makes a gun like this anymore. When trigger is let go, there's something akin to a sear to hold the hammer in this floated position. So a little sear can hold a hammer back just fine against force of a little spring, but it is not sufficient to prevent a discharge when the gun is dropped on the hammer from under 3 feet onto concrete. Of course in this situation, the AD is going to go somewhere in the upwards direction, which puts your life in danger. I've read two reports now of such failure/AD. Both guys alive. One with a hole in his ceiling. One with a hole in his arm.

Yes, the gun is very accurate and very reliable. But it is drop-dangerous. (Worse than being NOT drop-safe... most modern handguns that aren't truly dropsafe are going to discharge into the ground, at worst).

GLOOB said:

Especially considering not single mention yet of the glaring safety issue with these pistols.

When the gun is decocked and the safety is off, the gun can blow your head off if you drop it on the hammer. I highly suggest to anyone that uses this pistol to leave the manual safety on, despite the 30 lb trigger pull. This might feel redundant, but it is important if you value your life and that of anyone around you, which is most of us. And if you have ever dropped something, which is most of us.

This gun uses a rebounding hammer in order to float the hammer off of the (non-inertial) firing pin. In hindsight, this is a serious design failure, which is why no one makes a gun like this anymore. When trigger is let go, there's something akin to a sear to hold the hammer in this floated position. So a little sear can hold a hammer back just fine against force of a little spring, but it is not sufficient to prevent a discharge when the gun is dropped on the hammer from under 3 feet onto concrete. Of course in this situation, the AD is going to go somewhere in the upwards direction, which puts your life in danger. I've read two reports now of such failure/AD. Both guys alive. One with a hole in his ceiling. One with a hole in his arm.

Yes, the gun is very accurate and very reliable. But it is drop-dangerous. (Worse than being NOT drop-safe... most modern guns that aren't truly dropsafe are going to discharge into the ground, at worst).

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Where those both with P64s?

Yes, they were. I don't know if you can find this anymore, but IIRC they were posts in a forum with PA-63 in the name of the forum. But these were both with P64.

One guy was putting the gun back in his safe and dropped it from less than 3 feet high.

It takes a few minutes to verify the problem with the design, you if take it apart and know anything about physics. Insert Polish engineer joke.

There are also criticisms of the PA-63 passive firing pin safety, potential failure over time. But this means discharge into the ground, at worst, if the hammer is down. The PA-63 uses modern inertial firing pin. The hammer goes all the way down against the back of the slide. And I never read report of PA-63 AD when dropped.

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GLOOB said:

Yes, they were. I don't know if you can find this anymore, but IIRC they were posts in a forum with PA-63 in the name of the forum. But these were both with P64.

One guy was putting the gun back in his safe and dropped it from less than 3 feet high.

It takes a few minutes to verify the problem with the design, you if take it apart and know anything about physics. Insert Polish engineer joke.

There are also criticisms of the PA-63 passive firing pin safety, potential failure over time. But this means discharge into the ground, at worst, if the hammer is down. The PA-63 uses modern inertial firing pin. The hammer goes all the way down against the back of the slide. And I never read report of PA-63 AD when dropped.

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Ah... I didn't know that. I do know that Makarov PMs are certified drop safe by the state of California. This doesn't seem to be the same for the P64's. Still, despite the harsh recoil, awful trigger, safety issues, etc. you will still have fanboys claiming them to be so awesome. Now as far as the Makarov PM goes, everyone on this site knows I'm a huge fanboy for that gun... but I think it's justified.

If you ever get hands on a P64, you will see how/why this failure happens without even taking it apart. Unload it. Cock it. Press the trigger and lower the hammer. Keeping trigger pressed, push on the hammer, it moves forward. Let go, it moves back. It "rebounds." This is why it's called a rebounding hammer. There is gap between hammer and the slide at rest.

Now let go trigger. Hammer no longer can be pushed forward. .... But how much you trust that if dropped on the hammer? You should not trust that at all. It is just an evolutionary mistake along the way to an inertial firing pin and the passive firing pin safety. (It doesn't stop drop-fire into the ground, either, but who cares about that when the gun can blow your head off.)

P64 is unique. The other 9mm Mak pistols are all safe, in my book. Ironically, on the P64, the manual safety actually blocks the firing pin, not just the hammer. Insert another Polish engineering joke; this makes the gun now dropsafe in the ground direction, too, but only with the safety on, lol. IMO, I would never put one in the chamber of the P64 without the manual safety engaged at all times, until ready to fire.

Considering that two spare magazines for a P-64 would cost almost as much as the gun itself so having a couple of backups is pretty much out of the question (not counting the Keep Shooting ones, which are rumored to suck, a lot), that similar power-level micro 380's weigh around half or less, and that wonder 9mm's are like $350 to $400 street price, the P-64 is nothing more than a fun range toy to me. I won't carry it unless the world melts down or some such. I think Polish doctrine had the things only used in an absolute, dire emergency and stored in one of those flap holsters otherwise. All this is before the safety issue; thanks for bringing it up, GLOOB. The wonder 9's and modern 380's shouldn't have such safety issues.
In that respect and as part of a Cold War Communist themed collection*, it's worth having to me.

*read, "a cheap collection to get started in and finish."