Cimarron announces 1894 replica at SHOT Show 2017

CraigC

Very nice looking with the checkered wood and color case hardening! Thanks for the SHOT Show video link.

It is made by Uberti.

Awwww, I has hoping for a marlin 1894, not a winchester

So essentially, they're going to make a pre-64 Win 1894?

Yes, Winchester began their nose dive in 1963. They took their Classic line of firearms the Mdl. 94, Mdl. 70 Mdl. 12 etc. and cut the quality. This created a new collectors market. Winchester made prior to 1964 carry a premium price.

Dog Soldier said:

Yes, Winchester began their nose dive in 1963. They took their Classic line of firearms the Mdl. 94, Mdl. 70 Mdl. 12 etc. and cut the quality. This created a new collectors market. Winchester made prior to 1964 carry a premium price.

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Well, let's cut Winchester a little bit of slack. Winchester stopped producing the Model 12 in 1964 because it could no longer compete with the Remington Model 870. The 870 featured a receiver and parts made of stamped sheet metal. The Model 12 was still being made with forged and machined parts. You just can't forge and machine parts as inexpensively as you can stamp them out of sheet metal. So the Model 12 was discontinued.

Folks, don't get me wrong, I regard what Uberti has done over the years with great respect. I have owned several Uberti made revolvers and I still have two of their rifles, a replica 1873 lever rifle and their replica 1860 Henry rifle. The modern replica arms market would not even exist today if Uberti had not partnered with Val Forgett II in 1959 to create a replica of the Colt Navy revolver.

But it has also become apparent to me that the price of Uberti firearms has risen enough that I have been able to find original Winchester antique rifles at close to the price that an Uberti made replica goes for these days. I have two original Winchester Model 1873 rifles that cost about the same as a modern Uberti, and a couple of 1892 rifles that cost less.

Uberti is terrific if you want instant gratification and want to call up and order what you want right now.

But with a little bit of homework and wearing out some shoe leather, sometimes you can find an original for a surprisingly good price.

I have no need for another Model 1894, I found a nice pre-1964 Saddle Ring Carbine at a very affordable price locally a couple of years ago.

If I wanted to look for something really nice other than a 20" carbine, they are out there.

Here are a few links from an auction I attended recently.


http://www.amoskeagauction.com/112/1784.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/112/1728.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/112/1224.php

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/112/1223.php

Sorry to disagree, but the 870 has a machined receiver. Its claim to fame is the smooth action and durability. The 870 is certainly one of the things that Remington got right. My uncle and grandpa both worked at the Ilion Plant.

https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870

As a recent Uberti 1873 owner, I had a hard time finding an original as inexpensive. I really wanted to buy the Winchester Model made in Japan (which was what really made me want one), but the price was a bunch higher.

Buying a new Uberti 1873 makes sense because an original US-made Winchester 1873 is very expensive and you wouldn't want to put a lot of rounds through one. They stopped production in 1919. On the other hand, there is a glut of US-made Winchester 94 rifles in the $300-400 range so buying an Uberti version makes less sense.

MAKster said:

Buying a new Uberti 1873 makes sense because an original US-made Winchester 1873 is very expensive and you wouldn't want to put a lot of rounds through one. They stopped production in 1919.

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Howdy Again

As I believe I said earlier, prices of the Uberti replicas have risen enough in recent years that I have been able to find original Winchester Model 1873 rifles for close to what a brand new Uberti costs. According to Uberti's current web page, suggested retail price for their replica of the Model 1873 runs from $1259 to $1499, depending on the model.

I found this original 38-40 Model 1873, made in 1887, locally and walked out the door with it for $1595. Yes, there is a small chip near the for end cap, and yes the bore is pitted. But I have found over the years that a pitted bore does not mean the rifle will necessarily be inaccurate, as long as he rifling is still strong. No, I do not expect to be running thousands of rounds through it, but I have shot it at a few CAS matches over the years. I will not be running Smokeless ammo through it, I only run cartridges loaded with Black Powder in CAS. But as I said, if you want to do some homework and some legwork, there are reasonable options available in original Winchesters.

Winchester had Union labor problems. Their new manager decided that cutting corners would save the company. Winchester quality disappeared. The Mdl 70 became a terrible choice in rifles. They came out with a HB Varmint rifle chambered in the .225 WCF a revised .219 Donaldson Wasp. A rimmed case in a magazine bolt action? I really don't think the Remington 870 had a real affect on this disaster.

NOICE!!!

DADDY LIKE!!! Hope it's less expensive than the real "Winchester" (read: Japanese) 1894 .30-30 central-firing lever-action rifles. If so, it'll be a good seller I'm sure. I might buy one, the Mirokuchesters are a bit too rich for this old cow hand!!!

PS: That new Mossberg is hella sweet too!!

Driftwood Johnson, that is one nice looking 1873. I would be scared to death of rust shooting black powder or even black powder substitutes though an older rifle.

dh1633pm said:

Driftwood Johnson, that is one nice looking 1873. I would be scared to death of rust shooting black powder or even black powder substitutes though an older rifle.

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What do you think was being shot through it in 1887? Black Powder is nowhere near as corrosive as many shooters think. It only takes me about ten minutes to clean the fouling out of a lever rifle. Doesn't matter how old it is. On top of that, the old WCF cartridges such as 44-40 and 38-40 are much better for shooting Black Powder than some of the cartridges that are chambered in rifles today, such as 45 Colt. The thin brass at the neck of the old WCF cartridges expands much better to completely seal the chamber, keeping the fouling in the bore where it belongs. Very little fouling gets into the mechanism.

The simple fact is, most of these old rifles have pitted bores. But I discovered quite a while ago that as long as the rifling is strong, they are usually still accurate. And I don't try to swab every last molecule of fouling out of those tiny pits in the bore. I get 90% out, then coat the bore with a light coating of Ballistol. Black Powder fouling that has been infused with oil looses its ability to suck moisture out of the air, and does not cause further rust.

dh1633pm said:

Driftwood Johnson, that is one nice looking 1873. I would be scared to death of rust shooting black powder or even black powder substitutes though an older rifle.

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The rifle started out shooting black powder, may have never had anything but black powder in it.

I'm with Driftwood, I would never consider shooting anything BUT real black powder in an original 73 Winchester.

Cowhide Cliff said:

The rifle started out shooting black powder, may have never had anything but black powder in it.

I'm with Driftwood, I would never consider shooting anything BUT real black powder in an original 73 Winchester.

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I agree with your statement about black powder substitutes, I would never shoot them, in fact I won't shoot Pyrodex in any of my guns. I learned the hard way with that stuff and Kentucky humidity over night. Had a late evening hunt and the gun didn't get cleaned until the next morning and it was already covered with rust, pretty much ruined that gun.

I have left guns for days after shooting black powder and they just clean right up with water and ballistol.

don't understand why any one would shoot BP in an old gun with the hassle of cleaning it with a cloud of smoke every time it fires. I know they had to use BP when they were made but they also used horses and wagons in that time period had no electric or running water.

One of the best reasons to use BP in these old guns is because the metal used in them in not proofed for nitro powders. I have been shooting black powder rifles for close to 30 years and never had any issues with rust from using BP. I used to do the hot water through the barrel cleaning but for the last 20 years I have cleaned my guns with water soluable machinest oil like we used in my dads machine shop.

I never take take off the barrels anymore. I do remove the nipples and clean out screw. i swab the bore with several wet patches and the let the solution dry. It leaves a light coat of oil in the bore and where I wipe it off around the nipple. I never have a single spec of rust. We mostly machined cast iron parts and trust me, nothing rust like cast iron with a raw finish. But when the WS oil was used and the parts were stacked and the WS oil dried there was never any rust on them. I Mix my solution a little richer than the recommended 20/1. I usually go with about a 15/1 mix.

That Uberti 94 looks nice. Maybe they will make a field grade version with just blueing so its a little more affordable.

yes I can see trying to hot rod a round for the old guns and blowing them up but with a little dose of unique you can match the velocity and pressure of BP round I would think. I have cleaned many BP guns lol that is why I would try to use SP

The only problem with Black Powder is the lack of real experience. BP is easily cleaned away. I shoot flint locks and Ctg. Sharps rifles. In BP revolvers the Ruger Old Army.
The use of gobs of Bore Butter and other heavy grease adds to the cleaning problems. Use a proper grade of quality Black and clean powder powder solvent. Much of the smoke can be reduced by using less of the needless heavy lubes and home made wax laden wonders.

I really like shooting BP so it wouldn't bother me to just use it in one of these old guns. I guess its really a moot point because I doubt I would ever buy one of the old original rifles anyway. But BP is fun. And using it in the SASS shoots would almost be a requirement for me.

The Uberti that started this thread might get more attention from me if like I stated they made a field grade version. Maybe take a page from the new Marlin book and use flat black BBQ grill paint for a finish.

yes BP is easily cleaned with just hot water and soap. I remember it was a pain in the neck with the Old Army revolver getting all the BP out of the little nooks then putting the parts in the oven almost like cleaning an AR lol

Driftwood Johnson, in 1873 I wouldn't worry about it, but when the rifle is over a 100 years old, then the nervousness begins. Who wants to ruin a piece of history by lack of BP experience. If I ever decide to take the plunge and shoot some BP, I am sure I will look up Dog Soldier or you Driftwood.

salt&battery said:

don't understand why any one would shoot BP in an old gun with the hassle of cleaning it with a cloud of smoke every time it fires. I know they had to use BP when they were made but they also used horses and wagons in that time period had no electric or running water.

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I am truly sorry my post seems to have hijacked this thread.

But clearly there are folks here who know nothing about shooting Black Powder. They know nothing about how simple it is to load a cartridge with Black Powder, and more importantly they know nothing about how easy it is to clean up after shooting Black Powder. As for the cloud of smoke, that is a privilege not a hassle.

dh1633pm said:

Driftwood Johnson, in 1873 I wouldn't worry about it, but when the rifle is over a 100 years old, then the nervousness begins.

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When the rifle is over 100 years old, there is no need for nervousness. As long as the firearm is sound, it can take the lower pressures of a Black Powder cartridge. Cleaning, as I have stated several times, is easier than cleaning up after Smokeless. I have been doing both for a long time. Cleaning up after shooting Black Powder is just messy, it is not difficult. And you do not have to do it immediately, as some think. Back when corrosive primers were common, the combination of Black Powder residue and the residue from corrosive primers made the fouling very corrosive. But nobody uses corrosive primers anymore, at least I don't. With modern non-corrosive primers cleaning up after shooting Black Powder can be put off until one has the time. I often go a week or more before I clean up after a CAS match. Who wants to clean a shotgun, rifle, and two revolvers after being on their feet all day and driving an hour or so home? Not me.

I'm not going to go on record here and say how long I have left a firearm fired with Black Powder sit before getting around to cleaning it. But trust me, it has occasionally been far longer than one week. And when I got down to cleaning, the firearms were just fine, they had not disintegrated into a pile of rust.