To trim or not to trim .45 ACP
- Thread starter sbwaters
- Start date
- Status
forestswin
Member
I don't get it.....do they hand out free stuff, if you can say you never trimmed brass?
We have the plunk test to know whether cases are too long or too short.
It's not that hard.
If case rim sits high of the barrel hood..
Its too long, trim it!
If its level with the barrel hood...it's good to go....
If it's below the barrel hood....seat the bullets a little longer, if your chamber will allow it, otherwise it's headspacing on the extractor....I don't think that's good
Most 45 acp cases will pass the plunk test
We have the plunk test to know whether cases are too long or too short.
It's not that hard.
If case rim sits high of the barrel hood..
Its too long, trim it!
If its level with the barrel hood...it's good to go....
If it's below the barrel hood....seat the bullets a little longer, if your chamber will allow it, otherwise it's headspacing on the extractor....I don't think that's good
Most 45 acp cases will pass the plunk test
Last edited:
forestswin
Member
That's what I thought too, but look at the text in unclenick's illustration.
It really checks headspace....which is the case length..and whether the bullet is into the lands or not.
This confirms whether OAL is okay or not. OAL varies for each bullet. The distance from the barrel hood to the chamber step is constant in your gun.
See far left barrel...the case rim is below barrel hood because the case is too short and bullet is not touching the lands.
Next barrel to the right.......case mouth is resting on chamber step.....the bullet is not hitting anything either
Third from the left....case may be too short...but bullet is seated into the lands, and bullet seated longer keeps rim at level with barrel hood...its headspacing on the bullet...good for lead
Far right...case too long or bullet seated too long
Last edited:
I don't see a link or any illustration, but I understand what you are saying.
Headspace is about a properly chambered firearm and proper length brass. It has nothing to do with the bullet.
Then of course, as you say, you can "headspace" on the bullet taking all free space out (head clearance). Some people do this. If a .45 ACP brass is too short it will "headspace off the extractor" as people like to say, instead of the case mouth. But neither of those things, "headspacing on the bullet", or "headspacing on the extractor", are technically correct. When talking about straight walled auto calibers headspace is about the chamber being properly cut and the brass being the right length.
Plunking is about making sure the bullet isn't interfering with chambering. The best way to check .45 ACP brass for length is a case gauge. If a loaded round is higher than the hood when put in the barrel, the chances are far, far, greater that the bullet is interfering than the brass is too long. I have never seen a piece of .45 ACP brass that was too long, but I suppose it happens.
That isn't headspace.
Headspace is about a properly chambered firearm and proper length brass. It has nothing to do with the bullet.
Then of course, as you say, you can "headspace" on the bullet taking all free space out (head clearance). Some people do this. If a .45 ACP brass is too short it will "headspace off the extractor" as people like to say, instead of the case mouth. But neither of those things, "headspacing on the bullet", or "headspacing on the extractor", are technically correct. When talking about straight walled auto calibers headspace is about the chamber being properly cut and the brass being the right length.
Plunking is about making sure the bullet isn't interfering with chambering. The best way to check .45 ACP brass for length is a case gauge. If a loaded round is higher than the hood when put in the barrel, the chances are far, far, greater that the bullet is interfering than the brass is too long. I have never seen a piece of .45 ACP brass that was too long, but I suppose it happens.
forestswin
Member
forestswin
Member
I apologize, I've heard so many people talk about this ilustration, I assumed it has shown up often
As I understand it, headspace is that part of the chamber which stops forward motion of the cartridge.
So, most of the time it's the chamber step and the case mouth in semi-auto. If the extractor or the bullet is stopping forward motion, technically, that's your headspace and the length would be from the head to that point.
My issue with "never trimmed a case", as a reloader, do you check?
I agree, with these semi-auto cases, we will rarely see long or short cases.
As I understand it, headspace is that part of the chamber which stops forward motion of the cartridge.
So, most of the time it's the chamber step and the case mouth in semi-auto. If the extractor or the bullet is stopping forward motion, technically, that's your headspace and the length would be from the head to that point.
My issue with "never trimmed a case", as a reloader, do you check?
I agree, with these semi-auto cases, we will rarely see long or short cases.
Last edited:
Yes, that illustration is all over the web. I borrowed it as well in the "plunk test" thread. Looks like you/someone added the Headspaces on the bullet"
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/
Being flush doesn't automatically mean the bullet is holding it flush, as the bullet could still be off the lands and the case is firmly to the front of the chamber, which is how the case is supposed to do.
#1 is a very short case, the bullet is not touching the lands, or the chamber is too long.
#2 looks OK, assuming the headspace is correct, and headspace has more to do with just where the case is in relationship to the hood in a 1911, which is what that barrel appears to be from. The case isn't too long for that chamber, the bullet may or may not be lightly touching the lands.
#3 looks good, and it may be either the case or the bullet holding the case head flush with the hood.
#4 is above flush, where the case could be too long, the bullet loaded too long, both, and or the chamber could be too short, and it's not good.
When we are doing the "plunk test" using good cases and good chambers we are looking to see where we have to load the bullet to keep from it interfering with chambering.
So, for those doing this to try to "headspace on the bullet" a little more effort is involved to do so. Just dropping the round in and looking to see if it is flush isn't enough. But I don't care about that, I care about function, as I guarantee you I cannot shoot the difference. I wonder how all the bullseye shooters do it? Maybe they can shoot the difference.
Anyway, the "plunk test" as we have discussed it here for years is about OAL and chambering. It isn't about checking cases, and even if you want to use the test to "headspace on the bullet' it isn't about checking cases. Check the cases with a case gauge, and use the barrel to try to figure out how long to load the bullet either for function, or to figure out where it will "headspace off the bullet". As long as the case isn't too long, the case length is irrelevant for the second one, so check them all in the case gauge, scrap any that are too long, and have at it.
I do agree most .45 cases will headspace "close enough" in a proper chamber. Or in other words, not too long to chamber, and not too short to work.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/
Being flush doesn't automatically mean the bullet is holding it flush, as the bullet could still be off the lands and the case is firmly to the front of the chamber, which is how the case is supposed to do.
#1 is a very short case, the bullet is not touching the lands, or the chamber is too long.
#2 looks OK, assuming the headspace is correct, and headspace has more to do with just where the case is in relationship to the hood in a 1911, which is what that barrel appears to be from. The case isn't too long for that chamber, the bullet may or may not be lightly touching the lands.
#3 looks good, and it may be either the case or the bullet holding the case head flush with the hood.
#4 is above flush, where the case could be too long, the bullet loaded too long, both, and or the chamber could be too short, and it's not good.
When we are doing the "plunk test" using good cases and good chambers we are looking to see where we have to load the bullet to keep from it interfering with chambering.
So, for those doing this to try to "headspace on the bullet" a little more effort is involved to do so. Just dropping the round in and looking to see if it is flush isn't enough. But I don't care about that, I care about function, as I guarantee you I cannot shoot the difference. I wonder how all the bullseye shooters do it? Maybe they can shoot the difference.
Anyway, the "plunk test" as we have discussed it here for years is about OAL and chambering. It isn't about checking cases, and even if you want to use the test to "headspace on the bullet' it isn't about checking cases. Check the cases with a case gauge, and use the barrel to try to figure out how long to load the bullet either for function, or to figure out where it will "headspace off the bullet". As long as the case isn't too long, the case length is irrelevant for the second one, so check them all in the case gauge, scrap any that are too long, and have at it.
I do agree most .45 cases will headspace "close enough" in a proper chamber. Or in other words, not too long to chamber, and not too short to work.
Wreck-n-Crew
Member
I can see where one would confuse what is causing a pistol round to fail the plunk test and think it's case length is to blame. However there is a difference between them and you can tell by how the round falls out easily and how it feels when you spin it. A case that's too long will feel and act just like a round that passes a plunk test but sticks up too far out of the chamber while an improperly loaded cartridge will grab and stick a little to a lot while spinning and/or not easily fall out of the chamber. The closer the round gets to being right as your tuning it the more easily the round will spin and come out of the barrel if your making minor adjustments and rechecking (plunking) as you go along.
Simply put if it spins freely and falls out freely and it's too long then check the case. Also to add that chambers are often different in size and if several pistol cases fail in the length department when plunking I would suspect a chamber is a little short in it's depth. Most 45's and other pistol chambers are reamed deep enough but there are the occasional few that are a little tight in the depth aspect.
Bart's last post is correct and most every 45acp case shouldn't need trimming with the exception of a barrel chamber that's not bore or reamed deep enough or a batch of 45 cases that came too long from the factory. A 45 acp does not stretch in length enough to need trimming unless something else is wrong. Same with a 40, 9mm, etc. and they are under a lot more chamber pressure.
Simply put if it spins freely and falls out freely and it's too long then check the case. Also to add that chambers are often different in size and if several pistol cases fail in the length department when plunking I would suspect a chamber is a little short in it's depth. Most 45's and other pistol chambers are reamed deep enough but there are the occasional few that are a little tight in the depth aspect.
Bart's last post is correct and most every 45acp case shouldn't need trimming with the exception of a barrel chamber that's not bore or reamed deep enough or a batch of 45 cases that came too long from the factory. A 45 acp does not stretch in length enough to need trimming unless something else is wrong. Same with a 40, 9mm, etc. and they are under a lot more chamber pressure.
RainDodger
Member
I want to know from FROGO207, how much a metric butt load is! Isn't it dependent on the individual size of the butt?! I've been pondering this now for a long time, waiting for someone to ask!
On the real topic.... I've never trimmed a pistol case! I think we've pretty much answered this one.
On the real topic.... I've never trimmed a pistol case! I think we've pretty much answered this one.
Joshua M. Smith
Member
I only trim .45acp when I'm also weighing each individual charge.
I have one 1911 that can take advantage of these loads.
Not really worth it to me otherwise.
Josh
I have one 1911 that can take advantage of these loads.
Not really worth it to me otherwise.
Josh
It's a whole lot. Larger than a standard butt load.
243winxb
Member
This.
The taper is more forgiving than a roll crimp.
Just use the same brand, lot of brass, fired the same amount of times, with the same process.
No trimming as they may get shorter with each firing.
Neck tension is more important. For accuracy, dont mix brass, even of the same headstamp.
Neck tension/bullet pull can run from 45 lbs to over 100lbs with mixed brass.
whughett
Member
Seems no body has stated the obvious. Non bottle necked, rimless pistol cases head space on the mouth, hence only taper crimp or no crimp is used.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Most of us don't even do this.
75% of my brass is range pick up or purchased once fired.
I have no idea what the lot numbers are or how many firings they have.
When I get back from the range, I toss my brass into a large coffee can labeled for that caliber. When the can gets full I tumble, deprime and store in containers for brass ready to load.
Now keep in mind this is just for handgun stuff.
I'm a little more picky with rifle brass that I'm going to be hunting with.
tomj44
Member
I trim pistol brass and uniform the primer pockets too. It loads easier and faster for me.
I settled on Starline .45 cases. Good quality, easy to spot on the range floor and sort, and it means I’m reloading all the same way. It may seem OCD, but I like the consistancy. With your good advice I’ll leave the trimmer for the rifle brass. Reloading, already fun, just became easier.
Iron Sight
Member
whatever? measure the trim length after resizing.
LiveLife
Member
Butt or pipe is 126 gallons of wine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_wine_cask_units
- tun - 252 gallons of wine or two butts
- pipe - 126 gallons of wine or one butt
- hogshead - 63 gallons of wine or one-half butt
- barrel - 31.5 gallons of wine or one-quarter butt
- https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/assloadAnd ****load is a very large amount
- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/****loadYes, "****load" is actually in the dictionary.
Last edited:
luzyfuerza
Member
I love learning things like this here!
But one question: since the underlying unit is the gallon, wouldn't this make it an imperial buttload?
(It's time to close this one anyway)
But one question: since the underlying unit is the gallon, wouldn't this make it an imperial buttload?
(It's time to close this one anyway)
LiveLife
Member
Yes.
Barrel, Hogshead, Butt/Pipe and Tun are all English wine cask units and imperial gallons were converted to US gallons for my post. I tell you, you learn something new everyday on THR ... glad I was able to post something for your enjoyment and edification.
As to trim or not to trim 45ACP brass, never have and never will.
Why?
As Walkalong eloquently posted already, case length variation does not affect OAL.
Case length variation does influence neck tension but for semi-auto low pressure cartridge such as 45ACP that headspace off case mouth, I believe other reloading variables overshadow effect on chamber pressures to the point where trimming of brass is not necessary when case length variation is a few thousandths.
Barrel, Hogshead, Butt/Pipe and Tun are all English wine cask units and imperial gallons were converted to US gallons for my post. I tell you, you learn something new everyday on THR ... glad I was able to post something for your enjoyment and edification.
As to trim or not to trim 45ACP brass, never have and never will.
Why?
As Walkalong eloquently posted already, case length variation does not affect OAL.
Case length variation does influence neck tension but for semi-auto low pressure cartridge such as 45ACP that headspace off case mouth, I believe other reloading variables overshadow effect on chamber pressures to the point where trimming of brass is not necessary when case length variation is a few thousandths.
Last edited:
Early in my reloading career, I trimmed some semi-auto cases (10mm). Other reloaders laughed at me. I stopped, and waited to see whether any change resulted. Nothing changed. I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds (maybe hundreds) without any discernible issue. Note: I am not a bullseye shooter and do not ransom-rest test my loads. I suppose it's theoretically possible that I am missing some miniscule accuracy advantage. I know for sure I am not missing any functionality/reliability advantage.
Trimming bottle-necked rifle cases: essential. Trimming straight-walled pistol cases: OK if trimming cases is your idea of fun.
Trimming bottle-necked rifle cases: essential. Trimming straight-walled pistol cases: OK if trimming cases is your idea of fun.
Toprudder
Member
I trimmed some 45acp brass once. It was new brass, and some were just over the max length. I've never trimmed any since.
I will trim revolver brass that will be roll crimped. That is the best way to get consistent crimps, IMHO. But taper crimps - not so much.
I will trim revolver brass that will be roll crimped. That is the best way to get consistent crimps, IMHO. But taper crimps - not so much.
- Status
