Pistol case length

Atavar

Atavar

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Bemidji, Mn
After the problems I had loading up my .45acp Parti-Pac because of case length I thought I’d trim a batch of cases and see if things went better.
Trim length for .45 is .893, but sorting through my Winchester cases most were shorter.
I found a group of 50 that were .888-.889 so I sized those. After full length sizing with Hornady Custom Grade Dies they now measured .892-.895.
A few thousandths makes a huge difference in the flare. I tried to flare to minimum to set a bullet in but as you can see in the picture below the longer ones flared quite wide. Enough that I had to resize them and adjust the expander die because the wide flare would not enter the taper crimp die.
IMG_0628.jpeg
Am I doing something wrong or is this just the nature of the beast?
Any advice or constructive criticism is solicited and appreciated.
 
Size before you trim.

I trim all my competition .38Spl brass so that I get even expansion and uniform roll crimp. I also use a M-profile expanding die with avoids the trumpet shape at the case mouth and to hold the bullet straighter as it rotates to and enters the seating die
 
Yes you’re doing something wrong. But you already know that:)

Adjust your die before buying new. Adjust it until you have NO flare, then add as little as possible.

@9mmepiphany is right of course, you must trim before expanding or adjusting die because that changes adjustment in itself. But why trim at all?

I don’t know the back story you’re referring to but I load a lot of 45acp and have never trimmed. Ask folks here if they trim 45acp. Bet most don’t.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Yes you’re doing something wrong. But you already know that:)

Adjust your die before buying new. Adjust it until you have NO flare, then add as little as possible.

@9mmepiphany is right of course, you must trim before adjusting die because that changes adjustment in itself. But why trim at all?

I don’t know the back story you’re referring to but I load a lot of 45acp and have never trimmed. Ask folks here if they trim 45acp. Bet most don’t.
Click to expand...
But you can see in the picture the very different flares. That was without moving the die. The only way I know to fix that is to trim to a uniform length.
Are you saying adjust the expander die for each case? That sounds like a lot of work.
I do appreciate your advice and support. I am very confused and at a loss.
 
Atavar said:
But you can see in the picture the very different flares. That was without moving the die. The only way I know to fix that is to trim to a uniform length.
Are you saying adjust the expander die for each case? That sounds like a lot of work.
I do appreciate your advice and support. I am very confused and at a loss.
Click to expand...
No I’m not saying that. Not intending to anyway.

I don’t know your set up so my comments are based on some generalizations and my own use of Lee & Redding expanders.

But I’m suggesting as a first step you readjust your die to NO flare. Start there.

As an observation, your less flared case is still more flare than I use.
 
Atavar said:
Am I doing something wrong or is this just the nature of the beast?
Click to expand...
The PC answer is there’s no wrong way, just varying degrees of right.
I load a lot of range brass and there’s always a case length difference. I do not trim taper crimp cartridges, just due to the volume of shooting, and adjust the bell to an average case length. I do use an M style PTX expander, and load a combination of coated lead and jacketed. The expander Dillon ships can bell quite a bit so that’s why I went with the M style.
 
I just measured 20 Winchester 45acp cleaned/resized (but NOT expanded/flared) cases I shot Monday. They measured .886-.892.

I’ve reloaded these a few times but haven’t a clue how many, maybe once maybe ten times. Anyway this is the first time I’ve ever measured them. And I’ll expand them as if they are of identical length.

edit: just found a .883 and still don’t care:)
 
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Atavar said:
Maybe I’ll get an M die
Click to expand...
I switched from the Hornady to the Lee PTX in my .45 and .40 die sets because I didn’t like the amount of belling in the Hornady. I do like the Hornady seating dies and still use them. My sizing dies are Lee and RCBS, respectively. I decap in a separate operation so the stems are pulled from my sizing dies.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
I switched from the Hornady to the Lee PTX in my .45 and .40 die sets because I didn’t like the amount of belling in the Hornady. I do like the Hornady seating dies and still use them. My sizing dies are Lee and RCBS, respectively. I decap in a separate operation so the stems are pulled from my sizing dies.
Click to expand...
Is PTX just shorthand for powder through expander or something else? Curious cause a couple of you guys said it.
 
Atavar said:
A few thousandths makes a huge difference in the flare.
Click to expand...
It should not.
Hornady has a swaged in expander & titanium coated sizing ring. Cheap dies.

Try RCBS dies. Have tungsten carbide sizer & an expander, that easly adjustable.



Edit/add- 9mm Luger may need trimming, when it gets to long. . Never have trimmed 45acp, it keeps getting shorter. Range brass should be avoided for best accuracy.

Buy 500 new 45 acp brass & keep them on the same reloading cycle.
 
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I measure case length on all my 9mm range pickup, specifically to weed out the 20-25% that are already below SAAMI minimum length
Brass lengths that vary by a few thou shouldn't mess things up, but I when you're looking at a max difference of 20+ thou,,, like I was, it causes inconsistent belling and an occasional hiccup on my LNL AP. My 'pre-measured' cases flow through it like they should,,,
 
The best answer to you question is the type of expander as mentioned. Any two step from rcbs, noe or Lyman will fix you right up. Trimming auto or any straight wall is a one time thing ever. I haven't trimmed auto brass but every piece of 38/357 is uniformed in length. I trim those to 1.280 and anything less than 1.275 gets recycled. I've only lost a few pieces by ditching the shorts but it has reduced problems like your having to almost zero. The other choice is to load the shorts separately and put them into long term storage, or for shooting where your not able to retrieve them.
 
I’ll have to look at my basic press setup then because for me a couple thousandths seems to make a huge difference in flare for some reason. If it was slop in the Rock Chucker I would think COAL would be all over the place too but that is +- .001.
If I use less flare I have a problem with lead shaving when seating.
I’ll order a Lyman expander.
 
With the huge difference in the flare pictured, I would check the other equipment too (press, dies, etc.). I too, have reloaded thousands of 45 ACPs without checking case length with zero problems. One thought, the only problem I've has with my Lee 45 ACP dies is a short flare on the PTX die, a ridge stopping the flare. (too much flare is when the case won't enter the seating die as excess flare is removed during deflaring, aka "crimping")
 
Atavar said:
I’ll have to look at my basic press setup then because for me a couple thousandths seems to make a huge difference in flare for some reason.
Click to expand...

When things don’t seem reasonable, first thing I try to do is quantify them.

What exactly is a “few, couple and huge” in thousandths of an inch?

If it’s a single angle, it’s easy to calculate “rise over run” and you would know, exactly what it should be - spring back.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Okay I’ve been using a PTX without knowing
Click to expand...

So, I have a LNL Progressive for which I have all the bells and whistles. The problem enters when you want to change calibers. It's easier to buy additional powder drops for each caliber and mark 'em well so you'll know what's what. I've attached that info FYI.

It's all good when you're going to run several thousand rounds, but PITA when, all of a sudden, you need to change for something else like my son-in-law walking through the door w/ a bag full of empties of something I'm not running at the time. He always brings his backup - my daughter! Anyway, I got pretty good at it after a while.

'Course you can always buy a couple of additional LNLs to dedicate to each, then no worries. I be 'po boy though. I just sorta went back to the basics. During the winter, I prep a few thousand cases at a whack and then just have to worry about expander, power, and seat. Simple, no sweat. But, full progressive is a hoot when it's working well.

upload_2023-5-12_15-32-32.png
 
jmorris said:
When things don’t seem reasonable, first thing I try to do is quantify them.

What exactly is a “few, couple and huge” in thousandths of an inch?

If it’s a single angle, it’s easy to calculate “rise over run” and you would know, exactly what it should be - spring back.
Click to expand...
I took a close look at my press and the handle is hitting my bench just before camover. This may be giving me repeatability issues.
I’ll cut a notch out of the bench beam and see if it makes a difference.
 
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