98bluewave
Member
I've had my LTC permit a little over a year. I am wondering if insurance is needed and would appreciate any recommendations.
Opinions on Conceal Carry Insurance
- Thread starter 98bluewave
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Mousegun
Member
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- Dec 9, 2005
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I attended a trial where the defendant was proven Innocent. He had three lawyers at his desk during the trial. I can only guess how much that set him back. My guess he will be paying out for a very long time because the word was he didn't have insurance.
It is a roll of the dice IMHO. I know many people that can buy the best policy going and not even feel a tickle and others that would do some monetary suffering with the premiums alone.
It is a roll of the dice IMHO. I know many people that can buy the best policy going and not even feel a tickle and others that would do some monetary suffering with the premiums alone.
mljdeckard
Member
My main concern is that it is a new enough idea, there's not really any "Lloyd's of London" having a strong reputation for this. Several have come and gone, my favorite lawyer once had a 'pre-paid legal' system but dropped it. UCCA is now offering a comprehensive insurance and training program that sounds great, I just wish they had a deep stack of case files to demonstrate how they have lasted the distance through trial when necessary, multiple times.
The logical organization to spearhead such an effort would be the NRA, acting like the AAA did in the early days of cars when they helped motorists get insurance for their "gas buggies" when no one else would. But I doubt the NRA would want to do that; they defend the right to bear arms, but have always been a bit skittish about where that leads.
Jim
Jim
I don't think the NRA could sell insurance since they're theoretically a non-profit organization.
Berger.Fan222
Member
In addition to the lack of reliable insurers, one concern I have is that having gone out and bought insurance to pay for your defense might be framed as a disposition to use the available tools in situations with marginal or inadequate justification.
This may or may not be real. But it stands to reason that those who think they need insurance may be higher risk to insure than those who do not.
This may or may not be real. But it stands to reason that those who think they need insurance may be higher risk to insure than those who do not.
nettlle
Contributing Member
OP
OP
98bluewave
Member
Never thought about insurance like that. The only reason I have auto, boat, health, and home, insurance is to protect my assets for me and my family.
In general, a defendant having insurance coverage is not admissible as evidence of wrongful conduct. For example, see Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 411:
Not really sure how that works. AARP is a non profit and sells a lot of insurance. You only have to set up the insurance sales under a separate company. Then use the non profit to endorse the insurance.
NRA gives you X amount of insurance with membership. They offer additional insurance for theft for an additional fee.
Many homeowner's insurance policies often include some level of general liability coverage. Check your policy carefully, you may already have adequate coverage. In my case, I wanted more coverage than my homeowner's policy provided so I got a general liability policy. It costs less than USCCA charges for their Platinum package and covers more than just use of a gun for self-defense.
Berger.Fan222
Member
Help me out. Are the Federal Rules of evidence binding in state criminal courts? State civil courts?
The Federal Rules of Evidence were offered as an example. That's why I wrote, "For example,...." However, the evidence rules of the States are generally consistent.
Also, follow the link in my post and see the notes following the statement of the rule. The first note explains the policy behind the rule and gives additional examples.
Berger.Fan222
Member
In other words, No. The Federal rules of evidence are not binding in state courts, and someone considering liability insurance should check their state laws to be sure of the situation in their state.
nettlle
Contributing Member
Carrying CCW is being prepared for a situation that (I hope) may never happen.
Having concealed carry insurance is the continuation of the same mindset for me.
Having concealed carry insurance is the continuation of the same mindset for me.
When did I ever say or imply otherwise?
What I wrote was (emphasis added):
And following that link, one finds this note (emphasis added):
Note also the highlighted reference to the Uniform Rules of Evidence. If one follows that link he'll see that some 38 States have both adopted the Uniform Rules of Evidence and made their Rules available on-line. I have no information about how many States have adopted the Uniform Rules of Evidence but not made their Rules available on-line.
CapnMac
Member
Frank let this slide, but I find I cannot.
Innocence is the state of being without sin or vice, and is defined bt ethos and mores.
Our legal system works by the finding and assessing of facts.
It is by facts that a tried person may be found to be guilty or not guilty; their innocence is a question outside of a court's purview.
To relate an example shared by a County Court judge on the occasion of jury service, if a person were cited for driving 50 in a 40, but that the specific citation was for 15 over the limit, the cited person would not (necessarily) be guilty of 15 over, but (could be) guilty of "excessive speed." In neither case could the putative defendant be "innocent."
CapnMac
Member
Actually, AARP was started by Colonial Penn Insurance as a way to sell age-specific products.
They are now a 501 chapter-something, probably "c" and are self-supporting. If I remember right they are a blend of non-profit and not-for-profit organizations. The distinction is significant, as the former may make a profit (to meets its goals and ends); the latter shows a 0.00 balance (more or less) at the end of the business year.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
Its all garbage. If you are facing serious criminal charges, you want to pick your own attorney, not be assigned the cheapest provider the "insurance" company can provide.
You will be provided a public defender anyways by the government, and they are at least experienced criminal trail attorneys.
Also your attorney needs to be your second call after 911, they can do a lot more the sooner they get involved. Any insurance company will just give you the run around before providing benefits.
You will be provided a public defender anyways by the government, and they are at least experienced criminal trail attorneys.
Also your attorney needs to be your second call after 911, they can do a lot more the sooner they get involved. Any insurance company will just give you the run around before providing benefits.
Ghost In The Fog
Member
I've been tossing the idea around for the past couple of years. I just read another thread here last week about this- can't recall which one though.
I have checked them all out and I was leaning towards USCCA but their limits are low- They offer great training DVD's and resources though. I am now leaning towards CCWSAFE- Many on here will bash any of these products. Do some real research, read the terms of service, FAQ's etc.
I used the CCWSAFE website on Friday afternoon to ask a couple of questions and as of now, I have not heard back. This will also be taken in to consideration when making my choice.
All of these services have their pros and cons and some on here will tell you why you don't need it and it's a rip off- I did find some good info after digging pretty deep about CCWSAFE and it checks out. The questions I asked were some very specific situational issues and may take some time to answer.
Decide what is best for you based on your needs and thoughts not someone else.
I have checked them all out and I was leaning towards USCCA but their limits are low- They offer great training DVD's and resources though. I am now leaning towards CCWSAFE- Many on here will bash any of these products. Do some real research, read the terms of service, FAQ's etc.
I used the CCWSAFE website on Friday afternoon to ask a couple of questions and as of now, I have not heard back. This will also be taken in to consideration when making my choice.
All of these services have their pros and cons and some on here will tell you why you don't need it and it's a rip off- I did find some good info after digging pretty deep about CCWSAFE and it checks out. The questions I asked were some very specific situational issues and may take some time to answer.
Decide what is best for you based on your needs and thoughts not someone else.
45_auto
Member
sebastian the ibis said:
My attorney is a real estate and tax guy. Why in the world would I want him involved? I would imagine that the vast majority of homeowners/CCW carriers have very little aquaintance with criminal lawyers.
I think I would prefer the recommendations of some friends involved in the law enforcement or judicial system if I had to go to court.
Ghost In The Fog
Member
I signed up for CCW Safe last week after I said in a previous post of doing all my homework. IMHO I feel they are by far the best at what they offer. Hands down. Don't read internet opinion- do your own research and ask questions of each company you are considering.
As an added benefit their service is the least expensive of all of them and they thoroughly explained to me why. Although cost was a consideration, it was not a deciding factor- if they would have been the most expensive, I would have still chosen them. They don't have the extensive library of videos and training materials as some of the others, and they don't hound you for "up sales" but they offer real unlimited protection. NONE of the others do. (Again, ask questions yourself, call them on the phone, write them email)
Some say all of these services are a scam, others say it is not necessary- Choose for yourself. It is your financial life if something goes horribly wrong and you have to legally defend yourself. The legal battle cost would be devastating to me and my family, why add that burden to an already horrible situation? I insure everything else I own, why not this? If someone tells me the courts might see it as premeditated or however the keyboard warriors want to spin it, well then I have lawyers to make sure that the courts understand why I chose to insure myself from violent, unprovoked attack. I'll take that chance.
They might not be right for you, but I like what they offer.
climbnjump
Member
The NRA is not selling insurance, nor are they providing insurance. To sell insurance one needs appropriate licenses, and to provide insurance one needs to be a licensed insurance company.
But what many clubs, associations, affinity groups, trade associations, etc., do is arrange through a licensed insurance broker for one or more licensed insurance companies to underwrite one or more specialized insurance programs geared to the interests or needs of members of the club, association, affinity group, etc. So, for example, members of the Safari Club or the Amateur Trapshooting Association can buy sponsored gun insurance through a particular broker.
That's basically what the NRA is doing here. If you read through the linked material thoroughly you'd see that the insurance is provided by Chubb and administered by Lockton Affinity Insurance Brokers.
"Many homeowner's insurance policies often include some level of general liability coverage."
Two things to consider:
1)I don't think homeowners policies typically defend against criminal charges.
2)Some don't defend against civil liability for intentional acts, i.e. if you accidentally injure someone you're covered, but not if you intentionally injure them - and if you shoot a burglar, it is usually going to be intentional.
But read *your* policy to be sure.
Two things to consider:
1)I don't think homeowners policies typically defend against criminal charges.
2)Some don't defend against civil liability for intentional acts, i.e. if you accidentally injure someone you're covered, but not if you intentionally injure them - and if you shoot a burglar, it is usually going to be intentional.
But read *your* policy to be sure.
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